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estesbob
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You could save yourself a lot of time by just typing “Its Bush’ fault”.
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iamrefreshed
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I know you’ve asked this numerous times Bob. It’s telling that you have received no answers.
I think the left just doesn’t have it in them to type out into words what they truly feel.
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seekerz
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Not true, he has received more than one answer from me at least:
and
These were just the prior answers I could find right now.
Of course, if it suits anyone’s purposes to pretend that things which have been said have actually not been said, I can’t help that.
Catholics who frequent this board need to decide, like I did a couple years ago, whether they need to take to heart the words of those who would manipulate their views for political gain using whatever means possible while claiming the moral high ground against their opponents. Somehow I think most Catholics have already detected the obvious disconnect.
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iamrefreshed
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I only read a couple of confusing posts mentioning truth and you asking more questions than you answered.
And I haven’t a clue what you mean by that last paragraph.
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seekerz
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Not to go off on a tangent, but I think we agree more than we disagree…my comment about the tax cuts for the rich was not meant to ignore what happened in the real estate market but to showcase the oft repeated theory that more money in the pockets of the highest earners mean more jobs. Now it’s claimed like the highest earners don’t have the ‘confidence’ to invest, yet they want the tax cuts they presently enjoy to continue…What’s going to change, will extending the cuts give them confidence they don’t have now and will that confidence produce gains that will balance the effect extending the cuts will have on the deficit? Maybe I just don’t get economics…As for deficit spending - you can’t ‘save’ yourself out of a recession and the stimulus was needed. Guess it will always be an open question as to what would have happened without it, my feeling is that I wouldn’t be able to afford to sit here posting on a forum.Please compare Obama’s deficit spending in ONE YEAR of office to all 8 of Bush’s and get back to me. You might have an epiphany. I also think the wars were a mistake and yielded little fruit. As a centrist Independent, I’ll agree with you on that one. But as a disclaimer, I was all for the Iraq Invasion when it started. In retrospect we destabilized the region giving Iran more power than ever and weakened the Sunni minority in Iraq. Now the Shiite majority is out of control, has no check, and they’ll most likely eventually hook up with Iran. So we agree on that one. I detest neo-con nation-building naivate. Good point.
But you’re sorely mistaken with your venom toward tax cuts. Tax cuts fueled business in America. And the misnomer that you throw out, the usual Democrat leftie talking point “tax cuts for the rich” is inaccurate and you know that. I make a meager $59,000 and I watched my taxes go down. In those supposedly “rich” tax cuts, I got to write off $1,000 per child as a tax credit. I have three small children. As a teacher and the sole bread-winner, the Bush tax cuts and the child tax credits totally changed our taxes in our household. My wife and I were able to get back $3,000 to $4000 each year in tax return that literally saved our financial lives from year to year. The Bush tax cuts got Kate and I through some dang lean times. OF COURSE the rich get more of a cut in taxes, seeker, because, for God’s sake, they make ten times what you and I make!!? If you get a 5% reduction in taxes and you make $50,000, of course you’re going to get infinitely less than a guy who makes $5,000,000 per year. But look at what the guy has to PAY in taxes compared to your rate anyway? That is absurd.
And the Federal Government actually brought in MORE tax revenue under Bush with the taxes because business was booming, businesses were spending more and making more and actually reporting more tax revenue on the prosperity of said tax cuts.
If you want to blame GW Bush for the financial melt-down of 2008 until the present time, you’re way off base. The housing market single-handedly crippled this country. You know that, right? Iraq didn’t create job losses. Afghanistan didn’t create job losses. Tax cuts didn’t create job losses.
The REAL ESTATE market did. The Democrats in the late 90’s, under Barney Frank’s great wisdom and guidance, waved the usual Democrat flag of “Every single American has the right to own a home and should own one!” So they de-regulated the mortgage industry to such a degree and opened up the dead-beat market so wide that any jerkwad with HORRIBLE credit, repos, nothing down, and no history could buy $400,000 homes. The liberal mentality changed the mortgage system to allow dead-beats to monopolize the system very well. And they did. Mass amounts of greedy and irresponsible dead-beats bought homes they couldn’t buy, Fannie and Freddie got fat and all this toxic mortgage debt and hedge funds and all these stocks and portfolios were full of investments related to this.
When all the dead-beats defaulted and foreclosed, all the banks ATE IT. When the banks ate it, they couldn’t extend credit lines to small and large business. When the businesses lost credit, people GOT FIRED. Companies large and small had to cut losses and fire folks. They had to streamline, many went out of business.
Show me where George Bush made the mortgage market collapse, the people foreclose, the banks collapse, and the economy fall apart.
As far as the mosque thing goes, I think it’s lame. I think they should be politically sensitive and thoughtful to the people who lost their lives on 9-11 and build elsewhere. The Taliban, Al Qaeda and other Muslim killers overseas will see this as a triumph of islam and a strategic sign that they can destroy us and rebuild in their image. That being said, legally and constitutionally they have every right to build it as much as I must pinch my nose while saying so.
Did go off on a tangent BTW, sorry.
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seekerz
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Oh, it will be understood where it needs to be.I only read a couple of confusing posts mentioning truth and you asking more questions than you answered.
And I haven’t a clue what you mean by that last paragraph.
As for answering questions, I have done it and will do it again:
It would be no problem for me if the president were a Muslim - the problem is that he is not but some insist on making him one. I take issue with that - it’s nobody’s right to assign a religion to anyone against their stated beliefs. Not to mention it’s dishonest when the assigner knows better.
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iamrefreshed
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How do you know they insist on making him one? Maybe they really believe it!
Did you know 34% of American’s believe in UFO’s?
And if you don’t want to clarify your last paragraph that’s your perogative. But save the dramatic “Oh, it will be understood where it needs to be”
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seekerz
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As I may have said more than once I believe on this forum, I liked George Bush as a person and had hoped for more from him as a president. Particularly when I lived in the world where I felt I had the moral high ground against those with opposite political views and especially after 911, I supported him - not necessarily everything he did. I cringed at the incidents that were highlighted to embarrass him just as it irked me when Clinton’s dirty laundry was being aired before the whole world. I don’t see those embarrassments reflecting simply on the person in power but on the nation as a whole.
Regardless of party inclinations (and those have changed radically for me) or whether I think that person should be elected, once a person becomes POTUS, short of the normal off and on criticism, I support whoever is in that chair because I believe that until the end of the term or terms, it is in my/our best interest to do so. A beleaguered president can do less than a supported one to improve life for all of us and that is the basis for how I feel.
So my post above was not necessarily about Bush because he didn’t do any of those things single-handedly and without the support and or collusion of many of us. Sometimes (as with immigration reform) he didn’t get to do the good he attempted. With regard to our present topic, I would most certainly take issue with anyone who attempted to assign him a faith that he’s not, as I did with a prior poster who claimed we have not had a Christian president in decades.
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seekerz
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I don’t personally know 34% of Americans but I do know what is being posted here and that is what I was referring to with my comment about those who know better. Not to mention, belief in UFO’s does not (at least for me) measure anywhere near on the scale of important issues as compared to someone’s religious faith.How do you know they insist on making him one? Maybe they really believe it!
Did you know 34% of American’s believe in UFO’s?
And if you don’t want to clarify your last paragraph that’s your perogative. But save the dramatic “Oh, it will be understood where it needs to be”
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ChadS
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The quetion posted here many times has been: “What’s wrong with being a Muslim?” and “If there’s nothing wrong then why should anybody care if people think Obama is one?”
The obvious answer is that there is nothing wrong with being a Muslim. If the President even identified as a Muslim or was a practicing Muslim that would in no way disqualify him from holding the office. However, the reason we should care that people erroneously believe he is a Muslim is because it’s not a belief that’s held entirely innocently or just because they are uninformed on the issue.
The most important information from the poll results that have been talked about is the one that says:
Poll: Growing number of Americans say Obama a Muslim; more Republicans say he’s Muslim than Christian
I think that these groups that identify him as a Muslim would also overlap heavily with those most vocally opposed to the Ground Zero Mosque. I believe this group also intersects with the same people that believe that Muslims shouldn’t be allowed to serve on the Supreme court (28% according to a recent Time poll) or those that believe a Muslim shouldn’t be President of the U.S. (32%).
Time Poll: 61% Of Americans Oppose Cordoba House
ChadS
The obvious answer is that there is nothing wrong with being a Muslim. If the President even identified as a Muslim or was a practicing Muslim that would in no way disqualify him from holding the office. However, the reason we should care that people erroneously believe he is a Muslim is because it’s not a belief that’s held entirely innocently or just because they are uninformed on the issue.
The most important information from the poll results that have been talked about is the one that says:
At the end of the article quoted from a detailed breakdown of the poll results is given. It shows that Republicans are twice as likely to believe Obama is a Muslim than a Democrat. The numbers increase when the Republican score is broken down between conservative Republicans and moderates.
Poll: Growing number of Americans say Obama a Muslim; more Republicans say he’s Muslim than Christian
I think that these groups that identify him as a Muslim would also overlap heavily with those most vocally opposed to the Ground Zero Mosque. I believe this group also intersects with the same people that believe that Muslims shouldn’t be allowed to serve on the Supreme court (28% according to a recent Time poll) or those that believe a Muslim shouldn’t be President of the U.S. (32%).
Time Poll: 61% Of Americans Oppose Cordoba House
ChadS
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estesbob
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So why then is the left outraged that 27% of people think he is a Muslim?
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qui_est_ce
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qui_est_ce
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Your response to my question below
Please elaborate.
Who is spreading FALSE rumors that Obama is a Muslim?
Please elaborate.
Who is spreading FALSE rumors that Obama is a Muslim?
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Gift_from_God
Guest
So let me get this straight;
He sat in Jeremiah Wright’s pew for years when in actuality he was a Muslim? That makes no sense unless he had this devious plot where he would start attending a Christian Church and then years and years later he would run for Senate and win and then run for President and win and then…I don’t know, be President or something
He sat in Jeremiah Wright’s pew for years when in actuality he was a Muslim? That makes no sense unless he had this devious plot where he would start attending a Christian Church and then years and years later he would run for Senate and win and then run for President and win and then…I don’t know, be President or something
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ChadS
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Ahh…read the rest of my post. The part you failed to quote from. I think it has to do with the fact that the ones promoting the idea that he is a Muslim do so with an agenda, that the ones that think he’s a Muslim identifies largely with the conservative base of the Republican party.
ChadS
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iamrefreshed
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Then clarify it for us…
Is he a Muslim or does he believe what Jerimiah preached?
I’m happy with any answer!
Is he a Muslim or does he believe what Jerimiah preached?
I’m happy with any answer!
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Nobody can tell me who this is! I haven’t heard a single Republican or Tea Partier position that he is a Muslim!
Maybe if I google long enough, I might find somebody?
In fact, people here are saying he couldn’t be a practicing Muslim, because much of what he stands for goes against Muslim sensibilities - abortion, gay rights, feminism.
I listen to NPR every single day. Never once did I hear reported that somebody is saying Obama is a Muslim.
It seems to me the agenda is people are using a poll of uninformed peopled to paint the conservatives as spreading lies.
Kind of Jay Leno Jay walking. You really think most Americans are that stupid?
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Darryl1958
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There are a spackling of people here who think he is a Muslim.
Still the main thing would be, so what if they do? It is not as Muslims are all evil, so no great insult for him to be thought of as one, even if incorrectly so.
The greater conservative criticism of him would be that even if he was a Muslim, he wouldn’t be a particularly good one…
And the same criticism goes for his Christianity too.
Still the main thing would be, so what if they do? It is not as Muslims are all evil, so no great insult for him to be thought of as one, even if incorrectly so.
The greater conservative criticism of him would be that even if he was a Muslim, he wouldn’t be a particularly good one…
And the same criticism goes for his Christianity too.
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seekerz
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Not sure what you want me to elaborate on. Reading the thread might help.Your response to my question below
Please elaborate.
Who is spreading FALSE rumors that Obama is a Muslim?
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seekerz
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Don’t you understand that this is the same man who some believe knew ahead of time to publish his own birth announcement in a country where he was not born? Never underestimate the power of generous ears…they may confer otherworldly abilities.
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