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seekerz
Guest
Then why doesn’t the right clear things up for all of us, instead of prevaricating and enabling the conspiracy theories? Moral superiority is indeed a high horse…
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
You make a good point. It’s HARD to be a rational centrist in this world nowdays. My Republican friends HATE that I don’t like Sarah Palin. They bug me about it all the time. They hate that I like my teacher’s union and they all think we should lose our tenure and jobs for that matter. And my Democrat friends hate that I was ok with Bush, liked the tax cuts, don’t blame him for the financial crisis, and that I don’t like Obama. My GOP buddies also hate that I like pensions and don’t trust outsourcing corporations or the patriotic nonsense they blather on about while doing the outsourcing.
There’s way too much tribalism on both sides. We have to protect our guy! That’s the mentality. Perception always works on their side. Palin quits as governor yet she’s not a quitter. Obama goes on vacation constantly and sips konyak and yet he’s a hard worker
I want to clone Ross Perot and yet drop the terrible accent and the barnyard quips and we’d have ourselves a prez!
But I do very much agree with you. This is the era of stonewalling, both sides do it. This is the era of being obstructionists and never innovators or thinkers. Gone are the William F. Buckleys, the classy conservatives with steady, calm, deliberate, intellectual arguments. We’re in the era of Rush, Savage, and Levin, the screamers and haters and the insane leftist antics of Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews. What happened to the thinkers?
I think the Founding Fathers must be rolling in their graves and covering their eyes toward both sides!
There’s way too much tribalism on both sides. We have to protect our guy! That’s the mentality. Perception always works on their side. Palin quits as governor yet she’s not a quitter. Obama goes on vacation constantly and sips konyak and yet he’s a hard worker
I want to clone Ross Perot and yet drop the terrible accent and the barnyard quips and we’d have ourselves a prez!
But I do very much agree with you. This is the era of stonewalling, both sides do it. This is the era of being obstructionists and never innovators or thinkers. Gone are the William F. Buckleys, the classy conservatives with steady, calm, deliberate, intellectual arguments. We’re in the era of Rush, Savage, and Levin, the screamers and haters and the insane leftist antics of Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews. What happened to the thinkers?
I think the Founding Fathers must be rolling in their graves and covering their eyes toward both sides!
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mary_bobo
Guest
Yes, indeed.You make a good point. It’s HARD to be a rational centrist in this world nowdays. My Republican friends HATE that I don’t like Sarah Palin.
Do you not like Sarah Palin because of her politics for is it more personal than that? I don’t like or dislike her, but I do not think she should run for president.
They bug me about it all the time. They hate that I like my teacher’s union and they all think we should lose our tenure and jobs for that matter. And my Democrat friends hate that I was ok with Bush, liked the tax cuts, don’t blame him for the financial crisis, and that I don’t like Obama. My GOP buddies also hate that I like pensions and don’t trust outsourcing corporations or the patriotic nonsense they blather on about while doing the outsourcing. It is not the government that takes the jobs elsewhere, it is the climate provided by the government. Corporations are in business to make money and when government restrictions inhibit that process, they pick up their toys and go elsewhere.
There’s way too much tribalism on both sides. We have to protect our guy! That’s the mentality. Perception always works on their side. Palin quits as governor yet she’s not a quitter. Obama goes on vacation constantly and sips konyak and yet he’s a hard worker
I want to clone Ross Perot and yet drop the terrible accent and the barnyard quips and we’d have ourselves a prez!
But I do very much agree with you. This is the era of stonewalling, both sides do it. This is the era of being obstructionists and never innovators or thinkers. Gone are the William F. Buckleys, the classy conservatives with steady, calm, deliberate, intellectual arguments. We’re in the era of Rush, Savage, and Levin, the screamers and haters and the insane leftist antics of Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews. What happened to the thinkers?
I think the Founding Fathers must be rolling in their graves and covering their eyes toward both sides!
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seekerz
Guest
Which government restrictions would those be Mary? Part of what has hit us really hard is this whole free trade, globalization thing but I don’t think those are the policies you refer to when you say restrictions. As I see it, trade policies seem to have benefited mainly the corporations rather than the working class so why can’t they play nice in exchange and throw a few jobs in our direction now they’re needed? No, instead they outsource to places where labor laws are a laughing matter and reap large profits making tons of plastic baubles which we then allow ourselves to be induced to buy, buy, buy. It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Hi Mary,
I read your red and can respond for ya. I can’t stand Sarah Palin in many ways. I think she’s an intellectual dullard. I think she’s a walking puddle of cliches and “you betchas” aimed at a segment of our country that falls for the “boy she’s a mom like me!” and “boy she likes to slay animals like me” and “boy, she’s feisy and cute!” and “hey, she drives her daughters to soccer practice like me!” nonsense.
I find her banal, uninspiring, her voice nauseating, her quitting mentality leaving the governorship annoying, her arguments unconvincing, her career based on her looks and her swagger more than her actual intelligence or decision-making, and I hate her quips.
I hate that she came out of nowhere from a hick town, was governor a few years and yet now because she’s cute and supposedly so tough she is the GOP’s across country endorsement machine as if her endorsement should mean anything.
I don’t like the fact that her father said she left college in Hawaii because she hated being around all those dang Asians. My wife happens to BE Asian. I don’t care for the tone.
She showed a lot of hypocrisy with the Bridge to Nowhere accepting the $$$ for it and using it anyway betraying her own principles, I think she showed her true colors with Troopergate. I agree with the Branchflower Report. “Governor Palin knowingly permitted a situation to continue where impermissible pressure was placed on several subordinates to advance a personal agenda, to wit: to get Trooper Michael Wooten fired.”
I don’t think she’s at all intelligent or inovative in the least. I don’t think she knows what she’s talking about half the time. That information came out later after the election. She had to be so primed and pumped by her handlers just for that Biden debate that she was a wreck. She didn’t know so much about North Korea (she didn’t know there was one!) and her economic knowledge was less than a junior high kid. She didn’t know what the Fed was!
Then of course there was the “I can see Russia from my porch” nonsense and the Katie Couric interview showed her ‘wide reading’ qualities LOL!
The of course she left the Catholic Church for Pentecostalism. In my opinion, that shows a real bit of HUH? LOL
I happen to be pro-environment and an animal lover as well. I find her desire to de-classify the polar bear as endangered to be disgusting and unconscionable. I hate her hunting history flying around in helecopters blowing things away. Some rednecks find it stimulating and even sexy; I do not.
She is terribly lacking in vision or solutions, she knows little about foreign affairs, and I wouldn’t vote for this woman if you put a Smith and Wesson 38 Special to my head.
Yes, indeed!
I read your red
and can respond for ya. I can’t stand Sarah Palin in many ways. I think she’s an intellectual dullard. I think she’s a walking puddle of cliches and “you betchas” aimed at a segment of our country that falls for the “boy she’s a mom like me!” and “boy she likes to slay animals like me” and “boy, she’s feisy and cute!” and “hey, she drives her daughters to soccer practice like me!” nonsense.I find her banal, uninspiring, her voice nauseating, her quitting mentality leaving the governorship annoying, her arguments unconvincing, her career based on her looks and her swagger more than her actual intelligence or decision-making, and I hate her quips.
I hate that she came out of nowhere from a hick town, was governor a few years and yet now because she’s cute and supposedly so tough she is the GOP’s across country endorsement machine as if her endorsement should mean anything.
I don’t like the fact that her father said she left college in Hawaii because she hated being around all those dang Asians. My wife happens to BE Asian. I don’t care for the tone.
She showed a lot of hypocrisy with the Bridge to Nowhere accepting the $$$ for it and using it anyway betraying her own principles, I think she showed her true colors with Troopergate. I agree with the Branchflower Report. “Governor Palin knowingly permitted a situation to continue where impermissible pressure was placed on several subordinates to advance a personal agenda, to wit: to get Trooper Michael Wooten fired.”
I don’t think she’s at all intelligent or inovative in the least. I don’t think she knows what she’s talking about half the time. That information came out later after the election. She had to be so primed and pumped by her handlers just for that Biden debate that she was a wreck. She didn’t know so much about North Korea (she didn’t know there was one!) and her economic knowledge was less than a junior high kid. She didn’t know what the Fed was!
Then of course there was the “I can see Russia from my porch” nonsense and the Katie Couric interview showed her ‘wide reading’ qualities LOL!
The of course she left the Catholic Church for Pentecostalism. In my opinion, that shows a real bit of HUH? LOL
I happen to be pro-environment and an animal lover as well. I find her desire to de-classify the polar bear as endangered to be disgusting and unconscionable. I hate her hunting history flying around in helecopters blowing things away. Some rednecks find it stimulating and even sexy; I do not.
She is terribly lacking in vision or solutions, she knows little about foreign affairs, and I wouldn’t vote for this woman if you put a Smith and Wesson 38 Special to my head.
Yes, indeed!
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zucca
Guest
C’mon, Charlotte… Fox-News-style snippets out of context and innuendos are not part of our Catholic heritage…honesty is.
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estesbob
Guest
And ad hominem attacks on a Network you don’t like are?
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Darryl1958
Guest
Well, as a conservative, that is exactly what I am doing……Clearing things up for everyone.
The best evidence shows that Obama was a member of a Black Liberation church for twenty years. The pastor of that church, Jeremiah Wright, was his mentor. Catholics who shared in that philosophy, like Reverend Pfleger, were his dear friends. Muslims, such as Mr. Farrakhan of the Nation of Islam were closely connected to the theology espoused by that church.
While Obama did grow up strongly exposed to Islamic cultures in his childhood, and is very culturally attuned to Islamic ways, most evidence points to the idea that he was raised very much as a secularist to the point of atheism. His values on abortion, for example, reflect that value system and not the value system of either traditional Christians and Muslims. His conversion to Wright’s church in his adulthood in effect did not really require a great leap of faith from the leftist indoctrination of his college years. Liberation theology does not reject the Marxism underlying much of secularism, but indeed magnifies it.
I am sorry if you think that clarifying things puts us on a moral superiority steed, but the antidote to conspiracy theories, if there indeed can ever be one, is the truth. To the extent that any one at all is speaking truth and accuracy to these matters, it is only some of us on the right.
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ChadS
Guest
Normally the sort of question Katie Couric asked Palin about what she reads would be nonsensical since it’s taken for granted that many politicians read widely and intently. At that point in the campaign Palin’s intellect and intellectual curiosity was widely being questioned so at that time it was a fair question. Perhaps it caught Palin off guard at the time, but guess what politicians need to be able to think on their feet. I certainly don’t buy her rationalization after the interview that she refused to answer the question because she thought it was pointless and unnecessary, because if she really did think that at the time she should’ve said it, not that “I read them all” drivel. That interview certainly did nothing to impress me and it did not raise her stock in my estimation.
ChadS
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estesbob
Guest
In perusing CAF today I see barely contained outrage at the religious overtones of Glenn Beck’s rally yesterday from our friends on the left. I’m beginning to think that the reason the Left is so upset about this poll is not that people think Obama is a Muslim but that people might think he is religious at all.
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Darryl1958
Guest
Quality is a value term. What I am doing is focusing on the nature of his Christianity. His Christian roots lie in Black Liberation theology. His claims to Christianity run through Reverend Wright’s black liberation theology oriented church.
His election team deemed his connection to the church a liability to his gaining the presidency.
Perhaps his ties to the church were mainly political rather than spiritual.
No matter.
The political message is the big thing in black liberation theology anyways.
It was politically expedient of him yes. It happened at a time when he was becoming very much a household name and a force to be reckoned with.
Political cover-ups such as this do not create conspiracy theories. They merely confirm them in people’s minds.
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seekerz
Guest
You seem to be one of the very few interested in clarifying, so thank you for trying.
…Clearing things up for everyone.
The best evidence shows that Obama was a member of a Black Liberation church for twenty years. The pastor of that church, Jeremiah Wright, was his mentor. Catholics who shared in that philosophy, like Reverend Pfleger, were his dear friends. Muslims, such as Mr. Farrakhan of the Nation of Islam were closely connected to the theology espoused by that church.
While Obama did grow up strongly exposed to Islamic cultures in his childhood, and is very culturally attuned to Islamic ways, most evidence points to the idea that he was raised very much as a secularist to the point of atheism. His values on abortion, for example, reflect that value system and not the value system of either traditional Christians and Muslims. His conversion to Wright’s church in his adulthood in effect did not really require a great leap of faith from the leftist indoctrination of his college years. Liberation theology does not reject the Marxism underlying much of secularism, but indeed magnifies it.
I am sorry if you think that clarifying things puts us on a moral superiority steed, but the antidote to conspiracy theories, if there indeed can ever be one, is the truth. To the extent that any one at all is speaking truth and accuracy to these matters, it is only some of us on the right.
As far as Black Liberation Theology, on which I am not expert, our Catholic Church rejected Liberation Theology in South America as I suppose it does right here or anywhere. Reverend Wright’s ideology seems no more foreign to me than half of the kooky stuff that I’ve heard from the likes of Revs Hagee for example, so while I wouldn’t embrace it, I wouldn’t run screaming from it either.
Barak Obama is no Catholic and if he indeed does espouse such a theology, that would not be any stranger than a previous president espousing say, Manifest Destiny. It is reasonable to examine what a person believes as an indicator of his potential actions, but unreasonable to fear what he believes simply because it differs from one’s own beliefs.
Actions should be judged on their face value, not on the possible motive or motives for them. For example, I have seen both Christians and Marxists promote education as a way out of poverty. Promoting education is a good; the focus should not be on the ideology that promotes it but on it not being used by government as a means to propagate an ideology in the guise of education, IMO. Once that requirement is satisfied, I really don’t care who promotes education or why - only that it is promoted.
BTW, I neither see capitalism as the evil force or the sacred cow that it is sometimes derided or defended as. It is simply a tool that can be misused and I suppose, improved upon. I’ve been told I’m a pragmatist but I avoid labels. If it works and it’s not opposed to the common good or to our enshrined rights, do it - matters not who thought it up or why.
Hiding behind conspiracy theories seems to me to be like pulling the covers over one’s head to keep out monsters - at once ineffectual and unnecessary.
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seekerz
Guest
Religious? Glenn Beck? Surely you jest. I watched his show last night, I know where he’s coming from and I can see why he would think God dropped a sandbag on his head, too. He accused unnamed people of targeting Michelle Bachman in response to a question about whether any elected leaders today would be willing to die for the republic.
Are Catholics really that desperate for ‘religious’ guidance? Is there a shortage of priests (well, I guess there is) or has EWTN gone off the air?
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estesbob
Guest
I would call any Catholic asking Glenn Beck for religious guidance. Having disposed of that strawman my point was the Left is very uncomfortable with any religious overtones in political discourse. Getting back to the topic I don’t see much evidence Obama is a Muslim but then I don’t see much evidence he is a Christian either.
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seekerz
Guest
Do you mean Glen calling Michelle Bachman a target when asked about politicians willing to die for their country? You brought him up, not me. I just gave an example of reasons other than religion why he may incur the ire or thinking people.
Getting back to the topic, are Islam and Christianity the only two religions he is allowed to choose from? And since when did becoming a Christian, for Protestants, require more than a verbal acceptance of Christ as personal Lord and Savior? Unless you are implying that our thousands of fellow non-Catholics are also at risk of being identified as Muslims? Never mind, I see it’s the old: different standards for the One, principle. Not gonna fly with me I’m afraid.
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
I never did think he was a religious man in any way, shape, or form. He’s no Muslim. He’s an agnostic at best, an atheist at worst. He’s a secularist too in love with his own persona to let a God in there.
As for Beck and Palin, I hardly trust someone who went from Catholicism to Mormonism and someone who went from Catholicism to Pentecostalism respectively to give me the “truth” about God…
Give me a “none of the above” option with a decent candidate and I’m a happy man. A plague on both their houses, let’s kill all the lawyers. There’s two Shakespeare quotes in one day!
As for Beck and Palin, I hardly trust someone who went from Catholicism to Mormonism and someone who went from Catholicism to Pentecostalism respectively to give me the “truth” about God…
Give me a “none of the above” option with a decent candidate and I’m a happy man. A plague on both their houses, let’s kill all the lawyers. There’s two Shakespeare quotes in one day!
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estesbob
Guest
He is, of course. allowed to choose a religion he wants. The problem is he has publicly chosen none which makes him a blank slate for people to fill in. I personally don’t think he givesFaith a second thought and anything he does. What he chooses the label himself as irrelevant to me The only comments he has made about Christianity since he became president was repeatedly assuring the world that the United States is not a Christian nation.
Your comments about Beck again prove my point about the Left going apocalyptict whenever a conservative publicly expresses their faith.
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seekerz
Guest
Now we’re reading Obama’s mind are we? How do you know what he gives a thought to?
It is patently inaccurate to state that he has publicly chosen none as he has publicly spoken about his faith. You may validly question whether he behaves like a Christian, not whether he publicly professed to be one.
As to America not being a Christian nation, Obama joins the ranks of many pastors/preachers/priests who frequently lament this fact. Do you have evidence his statement might be inaccurate?
Beck and his faith don’t bother me, the gullibility of those who would deny his political strategy is what does.
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InSearchofGrace
Guest
from the U.S. Census Bureau, The 2010 Statistical Abstract
census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/population/religion.html
See census.gov/compendia/statab/2010/tables/10s0075.pdf
Self-Described Religious Identification of Adult Population: 1990 to 2008
Christians 173,402,000 to Total 228,182,000 = 76%
Obama made a statement contrary to this latest census information. Let’s see … hmm … why, what could be the reason he is saying that the U.S. is not a Christian nation?
It might be truer to say that many pastors and priests lament the fact that many Christians are not living or practicing their faith, with our President as an example, for one.
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a_priori
Guest
No surprise here. Americans aren’t going to win any awards for knowledge of current events or their ability to think critically. But we can emote with the best of 'em. We’ve been “Oprahfied” and I think we like it.
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