Poll shows more Americans think Obama is a Muslim

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With all due respect, our president has said a lot of things, many of them a bit far from the truth. I have heard him say he is a Christian, I just don’t happen to believe him.
That’s your prerogative, in any case what you believe about his faith is of no importance to him. However publicly casting doubt on the genuineness of an individual’s faith usurps, in my opinion, the role that belongs to a higher power than you and is also, incidentally, against forum rules.
 
That’s your prerogative, in any case what you believe about his faith is of no importance to him. However publicly casting doubt on the genuineness of an individual’s faith usurps, in my opinion, the role that belongs to a higher power than you and is also, incidentally, against forum rules.
Then why is this thread even here? Isn’t the idea of this poll the very definition of what you are describing. There is no rule that I am aware of that prohibits one from having doubts about the faith of another. I would think that the answer “I do not know” would always be acceptable to any question. I do not know if Obama is a Muslim or a Christian. Isn’t this admittance of ignorance just the opposite of judging?
 
Possibly…wasn’t Obama with that United Church of Christ or something like that? Not much difference…a feel good happy clappy vague experience with some choirs screaming and some fill in the blank theology of the Obama kind!
Maybe he’s Episcopalian:p
 
That’s your prerogative, in any case what you believe about his faith is of no importance to him. However publicly casting doubt on the genuineness of an individual’s faith usurps, in my opinion, the role that belongs to a higher power than you and is also, incidentally, against forum rules.
Here is what the moderator posted in a related thread about forum rules. It is directed to posters during exchange with other posters. Unless I’m reading it wrong, in which case I hope the moderator corrects me, I don’t believe it means that it is against forum rules to disbelieve the President as to his faith identification and so express it in a post, such as what the poster, to whom you directed yours, did.

There used to be a section called “U.S. News” or something like it and this was where disagreements on politics and everything and anything that falls within the rules about our national and local politicians were “aired”, as I recall.
GUIDELINES ON POSTING ABOUT OTHER FAITHS

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If the nature of an initial posting is blatantly scornful of any religion (e.g., “the pope is the anti-Christ” or “Rome is the Whore of Babylon” or “Muslims are terrorists”), suspension may be immediate and without prior counseling.

Members are free to discuss, dialogue, question, disagree with, and debate the doctrines and dogmas of both Catholicism and non-Catholic religions. However, all discourse must be civil and charitable.

Guidelines
For both Catholic and non-Catholic posters:
  • **It is acceptable to question the doctrine or dogma of another’s faith **
  • **It is never acceptable to question the sincerity of an individual’s beliefs **
  • It is never acceptable to state a blatantly disrespectful characterization of any faith, (“Rome is the Whore of Babylon”, “Nazarenes are Holy-Rollers”, “Jews are Christ-killers”, “Muslims are terrorists”) its tenets, practices, or adherents
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*It is our observation that discussion of such past events rarely serves a useful purpose and inevitably opens a thread to posts that violate forum rules and/or the bounds of civil discourse. So, while such threads may be useful, they raise a red flag for the Moderation staff.
 
I can’t imagine a point where we can’t criticize, disagree with, and complain about our President. That would be extreme censorship and the PC police gone wild.
Here is what the moderator posted in a related thread about forum rules. It is directed to posters during exchange with other posters. Unless I’m reading it wrong, in which case I hope the moderator corrects me, I don’t believe it means that it is against forum rules to disbelieve the President as to his faith identification and so express it in a post, such as what the poster, to whom you directed yours, did.

There used to be a section called “U.S. News” or something like it and this was where disagreements on politics and everything and anything that falls within the rules about our national and local politicians were “aired”, as I recall.
 
I can’t imagine a point where we can’t criticize, disagree with, and complain about our President. That would be extreme censorship and the PC police gone wild.
I’m sure if someone could see everything about us, that someone could question how sincere we all are in our faith. A christian should not judge how sincere another person is in their faith. Only God really knows.
 
Then why is this thread even here? Isn’t the idea of this poll the very definition of what you are describing. There is no rule that I am aware of that prohibits one from having doubts about the faith of another. I would think that the answer “I do not know” would always be acceptable to any question. I do not know if Obama is a Muslim or a Christian. Isn’t this admittance of ignorance just the opposite of judging?
The thread is here because someone carried out a poll and someone else wanted to discuss it. None of what we say here matters to Obama’s faith.

The rule is that we are not to question the sincerity of someone else’s faith: if I say I do not believe that someone who professes Christianity is in fact Christian (as the poster did, whom I was responding to) then I am questioning the sincerity of that person’s stated beliefs.

This is not a matter of ignorance or confusion, this is: he says what he believes, I think he’s lying. It’s really not that complicated. No one is authorized to judge a person’s faith except God and those to whom He delegates that duty.
 
I can’t imagine a point where we can’t criticize, disagree with, and complain about our President. That would be extreme censorship and the PC police gone wild.
Criticizing, disagreeing and complaining about his policies is quite different from questioning his faith. A president is not a religious leader/figure therefore his faith is his private choice. That is true for him as for any other human being. Whatever courtesies we owe to any human being of faith, we also owe to him.
 
This is not a matter of ignorance or confusion, this is: he says what he believes, I think he’s lying. It’s really not that complicated. No one is authorized to judge a person’s faith except God and those to whom He delegates that duty.
Apprently he delegated that duty to you?
 
Strange that on a Catholic board, there would be people clamoring for the right to spread notions about someone that they are totally unable to prove…! :eek::eek::eek:
 
Apprently he delegated that duty to you?
:confused::confused: I’m not confused about my duties, in particular the one to refrain from bearing false witness against another. Are you?

P.S. Did you read the post I was responding to? The poster freely declares that she does not believe the President when he says he’s a Christian. I’m not judging her, I’m repeating her words.
 
Seekerz-
People make judgments all day long. That’s part of life. No one not ONCE judged Obama’s eternal destiny. No one said he’s going to Hell. All we are saying is, by his actions, we don’t believe he is a Christian. That is all.

He is a descendant of a Muslim tradition.

He attended Trinity United Church of Christ where he made his altar call. They hold services on Christmas. He did not attend.

You are making judgments here as well. There is nothing wrong with making judgments. You are calling us hypocrites. That’s a judgment. You’re entitled to that.

I refer to James Chapter 2:17-22, 26
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well.** Even the demons believe that and tremble.**
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
 
:confused::confused: I’m not confused about my duties, in particular the one to refrain from bearing false witness against another. Are you?

P.S. Did you read the post I was responding to? The poster freely declares that she does not believe the President when he says he’s a Christian. I’m not judging her, I’m repeating her words.
Why would it matter if he is a Muslim
 
Seekerz-
People make judgments all day long. That’s part of life. No one not ONCE judged Obama’s eternal destiny. No one said he’s going to Hell. All we are saying is, by his actions, we don’t believe he is a Christian. That is all.

He is a descendant of a Muslim tradition.

He attended Trinity United Church of Christ where he made his altar call. They hold services on Christmas. He did not attend.

You are making judgments here as well. There is nothing wrong with making judgments. You are calling us hypocrites. That’s a judgment. You’re entitled to that.

I refer to James Chapter 2:17-22, 26
I’m not calling you a hypocrite at all. I’m simply saying that you can’t dispute a person’s stated spiritual beliefs since you can’t see inside his or her soul. I would take that stand if you were discussing anyone’s faith - this is not simply about Obama.

The basis you give for questioning the sincerity of his beliefs (which is in fact what you are doing when you dispute what he claims to believe) is so flimsy it defies adequate description. I was baptized in the Catholic church and I have missed Mass on Christmas, would that make me an animist if I were descended from one or raised in such a culture?

Guess it’s difficult for a Catholic to judge a non-Catholic’s state of faith (since their faith is so diverse) but to weigh that in balance against a supposed inherited Muslim “tradition” is indeed an effort of Herculean proportions!

All the excuses aside, it is truly in poor taste to not to simply doubt, but to openly counter, what a person professes to believe, whoever that person is.

And on another note, I wouldn’t mind an explanation of your beliefs regarding Muslims going to heaven…can they?
 
Why would it matter if he is a Muslim
Because truth always matters. But excuse me, I shouldn’t be taking up the matter of your issues with the truth…we seem to have been there before - on multiple threads.
 
Why would it matter if he is a Muslim
Bob-
This is the way SOME libs work. They set up a false argument:

Right wingers think all Muslims are evil terrorists. These right wingers then claim that Obama is a Muslim. Therefore Obama is an evil terrorist.

Therefore right wingers are small-minded stupid racist Islamaphobe bigots.

Unfortunately, they do not realize they are being bigots, because they think all right wingers hate Obama because he is an evil terrorist Muslim.
  • They cannot accept the the right wing conservative movement make their choices rationally and intellectually.
  • They cannot accept that right wingers can read and inform themselves.
  • They cannot accept that right wingers do not get their news exclusively from Bill O’Reilly or Shawn Hannity.
  • They cannot accept that right wingers actually watch Rachel Maddow or Keith Olberman. (Admittedly, I can only stomach about 5 min. worth)
  • They cannot accept that right wingers listen to NPR
If they believed all the above, they would have to admit right wingers might actually have a valid point.
 
Because truth always matters. But excuse me, I shouldn’t be taking up the matter of your issues with the truth…we seem to have been there before - on multiple threads.
So if 60% of the populace thought Obama was a Rotarian, which he is not, we would see the same amount of outrage from the left? After all its an issue of truth.
 
Bob-
This is the way SOME libs work. They set up a false argument:

Right wingers think all Muslims are evil terrorists. These right wingers then claim that Obama is a Muslim. Therefore Obama is an evil terrorist.

Therefore right wingers are small-minded stupid racist Islamaphobe bigots.

Unfortunately, they do not realize they are being bigots, because they think all right wingers hate Obama because he is an evil terrorist Muslim.
  • They cannot accept the the right wing conservative movement make their choices rationally and intellectually.
  • They cannot accept that right wingers can read and inform themselves.
  • They cannot accept that right wingers do not get their news exclusively from Bill O’Reilly or Shawn Hannity.
  • They cannot accept that right wingers actually watch Rachel Maddow or Keith Olberman. (Admittedly, I can only stomach about 5 min. worth)
  • They cannot accept that right wingers listen to NPR
If they believed all the above, they would have to admit right wingers might actually have a valid point.
Insisting on the truth and on respect for someone’s publicly stated faith is “some libs work”? Excuse me while I dust off my copy of the catechism…

It would seem to me that questioning the quality of one’s Christianity (as in, is one a good Christian) is quite a different matter from unilaterally reassigning someone another faith based on our impression of where they belong. Kind of like - get to the back of the bus, you don’t belong among us. (As long as we’re hanging loose with all kinds of principles around this topic, I just couldn’t resist throwing that card in the pile…) 😉
 
So if 60% of the populace thought Obama was a Rotarian, which he is not, we would see the same amount of outrage from the left? After all its an issue of truth.
Would you seriously equate your Catholicism to a Rotary Club membership? If so, why? If not, why make that comparison with his Christianity?
 
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