Poll: U.S. Catholics want a younger, more liberal pope

[CMatt25]

I’m going to assume that this level of exageration is being employed as a device to refocus attention on abortion on this insiders forum. That’s fine if that’s your intent and if you’re assuming everyone here has some knowledge of the considerable work the RCC does locally and around the world in regards to the sick and the poor. But please bear in mind that this sort of statement is heard by outsiders as aloofness towards the sick in poor.

I also think it’s counterproductive since you offered what I see as the most compelling lines for the Catholic position on this thread: This not only validates concern for those Jesus lists in Matthew 25 but also serves as a bridge, both “out” from the starting point of abortion to other issues of poverty and injustice and “in” from other issues of poverty and injustice to abortion.

This was a good post. And we do all have different experiences with the RCC. It reminded me though of one of mine. A few yrs ago during the Great Recession, I sat at a weekday Mass. The priest was discussing the poor. In his homily he mentioned parishoners were complaining about this particular parish not doing enough for the poor. And the words that came out of his mouth next floored me to this day. He said his answer to the poor is to get a job. I know that may be the ultimate answer. But honestly I nearly got up and walked out that very minute. The only thing that kept me there was I was attending in memory of a loved one on that day. I’ve been back to that parish just one time since due to scheduling. But decided I could no longer go there. I chalked it up to perhaps it was him being a conservative. But it just didn’t seem to fit the Gospel message I was familiar with.

 

[Auntie_A]

…This is why there is no liberal or conservative, no republican or democrat, there is only truth and there is only one known as Truth, Jesus. Your term liberal is in your description of your affiliation to religion. To me, a Catholic obedient to the Church and her leaders seeing your profile list what you serve, “liberal”, I can’t help but feel sad. Sad because I know you are Catholic, at one time a daily communicant and you choose liberal over His Church. It is more important to you to proclaim your desire to be a liberal more than your desire to be Catholic and His disciple…

Thank you for those words.

It feels like now, more than ever, many people feel they must buy a “party line” and not risk seeking the truth. I guess it must feel difficult to deal with political contradictions in the search, but it is always refreshing to encounter the truth in all of its complexities. Political lines and fashions change back and forth, but Christ remains the same.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

This was a good post. And we do all have different experiences with the RCC. It reminded me though of one of mine. A few yrs ago during the Great Recession, I sat at a weekday Mass. The priest was discussing the poor. In his homily he mentioned parishoners were complaining about this particular parish not doing enough for the poor. And the words that came out of his mouth next floored me to this day. He said his answer to the poor is to get a job. I know that may be the ultimate answer. But honestly I nearly got up and walked out that very minute. The only thing that kept me there was I was attending in memory of a loved one on that day. I’ve been back to that parish just one time since due to scheduling. But decided I could no longer go there. I chalked it up to perhaps it was him being a conservative. But it just didn’t seem to fit the Gospel message I was familiar with.

CMatt…did you ever here Christ talk about forgiveness? Because you have been bringing up this tired example for several years now. We are all human…and don’t always do or say the best…and yet you refuse to forgive this priest…because you always bring it up.

Let me tell you, for each story like that…I have a match for it within my protestant days…but I have moved on and forgiven them.

I think it’s time you do so for this poor priest…

 

[JamesCaruso]

Lisa, I say and claim no such thing. No where will you find me saying I support abortion. Or promoting my support for it. In fact I’m sure I have said the opposite. That if I were a woman, I personally *wouldn’t *have one. And how it is one of the most difficult issues. One which I have never taken lightly to this day and one which I have struggled with like no other. But as with many issues, I simply don’t see it as a black and white issue. And it is like none other. Balancing the rights of women with the rights of the unborn is not easy in a nation of plural beliefs and non belief. If it were, the issue would not be the conflict it is today. But I understand you and others have difficulty with how our Catholic Vice President has for example explained his political position too. I know though part of the difficulty stems from those who are anti choice in every circumstance thinking people who are for some choice, are pro abortion. But I know in the real world that is simply not the case. Ok I’m going to move on from our back and forth on abortion. It has never gotten us anywhere. Have a good night.

Plural beliefs have nothing to do with protecting the rights of the unborn. Either the unborn have the same right to life as you or I , or they don’t. No one else’s rights are superior to one’s right to life.

We will be facing a similar issue as people believing in Sharia law grow in numbers in this country. No matter what they believe in terms of killing their children or wives for infidelity or religions reasons, our laws are absolute in the case of homicide. Some countries I am told take the attitude, “Let them do whatever they want among themselves. We don’t want to get involved.” I can’t see that happening here in the U.S. If it does-- how the might have fallen!

Because killing unborn babies is objectively and gravely wrong, I must oppose it, just as I would oppose allowing Muslims in this country to commit homicide under their religious laws. It is a black and white issue.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Fantastic post. I wish more Catholics felt this way. The way some Catholics attack other Catholics as not being “catholic enough” is utterly disgusting to me and a reason why some have been driven away from the church.

I certainly hope you are not talking about the central principals of the Catholic faith…the non-negotiables.

I work in a Catholics Can Come Home ministry so I know how Catholics can be driven away by harsh people…or sometimes they just fall away…why? Because nobody taught them the TRUTH in love. Watering it down…and saying things like personally I don’t believe in it (abortion) but it’s ok for someone else…is not doing them any favors and in a lot of cases leaves people wondering out in the desert for several years…if not forever.

Nowhere in the gospels does Jesus EVER say “it’s ok to persist in your sin” or its ok to just follow some of the commandments. What he did say is that they all relate back to love…but love is not allowing people to persist in sin and make them think it’s ok…that everything will be ok.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Lisa, I say and claim no such thing. No where will you find me saying I support abortion. Or promoting my support for it. In fact I’m sure I have said the opposite. That if I were a woman, I personally *wouldn’t *have one. And how it is one of the most difficult issues. One which I have never taken lightly to this day and one which I have struggled with like no other. But as with many issues, I simply don’t see it as a black and white issue. And it is like none other. Balancing the rights of women with the rights of the unborn is not easy in a nation of plural beliefs and non belief. If it were, the issue would not be the conflict it is today. But I understand you and others have difficulty with how our Catholic Vice President has for example explained his political position too. I know though part of the difficulty stems from those who are anti choice in every circumstance thinking people who are for some choice, are pro abortion. But I know in the real world that is simply not the case. Ok I’m going to move on from our back and forth on abortion. It has never gotten us anywhere. Have a good night.

Personally I don’t believe in murder…and I would never do it…but it’s ok for other people to do it. That’s exactly what you are saying.

And just to be clear…I’ve been in one of those exception cases and I in no way understand how having an abortion would minimize the trauma…or make it ok…you just send people to add to their trauma. And I know what I speak about this.

It’s a conflict in America because people want to do what they want to do. Years ago, slavery was legal…it NEVER made it moral. Legal does NOT equal moral.

 

[epan]

This was a good post. And we do all have different experiences with the RCC. It reminded me though of one of mine. A few yrs ago during the Great Recession, I sat at a weekday Mass. The priest was discussing the poor. In his homily he mentioned parishoners were complaining about this particular parish not doing enough for the poor. And the words that came out of his mouth next floored me to this day. He said his answer to the poor is to get a job. I know that may be the ultimate answer. But honestly I nearly got up and walked out that very minute. The only thing that kept me there was I was attending in memory of a loved one on that day. I’ve been back to that parish just one time since due to scheduling. But decided I could no longer go there. I chalked it up to perhaps it was him being a conservative. But it just didn’t seem to fit the Gospel message I was familiar with.

Didn’t a famous French monarch say, “let then eat cake”? I think an iconic US president, and a more recent one, both Republican also said something similar. But I am surprised that a Catholic Priest gave the Marie Antoinette Homily. I would expect that more from a tele-evangelist with a Maybach and a jet waiting to whisk him away to his island home.

 

[epan]

Personally I don’t believe in murder…and I would never do it…but it’s ok for other people to do it. That’s exactly what you are saying.

And just to be clear…I’ve been in one of those exception cases and I in no way understand how having an abortion would minimize the trauma…or make it ok…you just send people to add to their trauma. And I know what I speak about this.

It’s a conflict in America because people want to do what they want to do. Years ago, slavery was legal…it NEVER made it moral. Legal does NOT equal moral.

I have a couple of opinions, in this topic. The US Supreme Court is only “right” because it is the last court to rule, and not because it is consistently of high caliber in its legal acumen and wisdom.

The tragic error in Roe V. Wade, which we live with today, and which so many fetuses have died as a result of, is that the Court did not carefully consider when the beginning of life occurs. I do wish that they would revisit the question, and then ask 100 embryologists, well qualified, but chosen at random regardless of religious affiliation, when does life begin? I think that they would reverse their decision, if that happened.

The Court is very reticent to reverse itself. There is good reason for this. But surely, enough time has passed to revisit the question.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Christianized Marxism.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

“Liberation theology is a political movement in Catholic theology which interprets the teachings of Jesus Christ in relation to a liberation from unjust economic, political, or social conditions. It has been described by proponents as “an interpretation of Christian faith through the poor’s suffering, their struggle and hope, and a critique of society and the Catholic faith and Christianity through the eyes of the poor”, and by detractors as Christianized Marxism.”

 

[GaryTaylor]

Just a quick note, the missionary work of the poor with the Catholic Church is realized and exemplified by Matthew 25, self evident throughout the world, has been a very long time. I know of no other who’s effort and effect has shined as brightly as that of the Catholic Church. And as we see, so too this is self evident with our new Holy Father. May our Lord be forever Blessed.

“What you do to the least of them you do to Me”

 

[twoshoes]

On behalf of myself only, as a member of the clergy responsible to preach all of the Gospel, that fact is embarrassing.

I am able to and do preach the truth on these subjects and so does my pastor. Guess what, the people thank us for preaching it!

The Bishop, Priest, and Decons march at our rallies at PPH. Because your Priest or Bishop can’t be at the rallies you choose doen’t mean they don’t go or are not there in spirit, they have a magnatude of duties to preform, cut them some slack, help them by carring this load when they are not avvailable.

 

[BackToTheRock]

]

Christianized Marxism.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

“Liberation theology is a political movement in Catholic theology which interprets the teachings of Jesus Christ in relation to a liberation from unjust economic, political, or social conditions. It has been described by proponents as “an interpretation of Christian faith through the poor’s suffering, their struggle and hope, and a critique of society and the Catholic faith and Christianity through the eyes of the poor”, and by detractors as Christianized Marxism.”

Gary - this is great that you’re bringing up liberation theology. “Christianized Marxism” has some legitimacy. Two famous liberation theologians, both priests (and brothers) are Ernesto and Fernando Cardenal from Nicaragua. Both too, drew the ire of Catholic leadership for becoming too entwined with the Sandanistas under Daniel Ortega -Fernando was removed from the Jesuits for taking on his role as Minister of Education (later reinstated after he left the government) and Ernesto by JP II himself, captured in a famous photograph at the airport in Managua. History has shown that in the long run they were wrong for placing too much trust in earthly political process (as is the Christian right wing in America for cozying up to the GOP).

It’s important to note that liberationists were most notably critiqued by two Catholic leaders; JP II and Cardinal Ratzinger. Both of their formative years were lived under political chaos that led to political tyranny so it’s no wonder that they were very concerned about priests becoming government officials in a country which also was characterized by political chaos.

And yet - this doesn’t mean that liberation theology has nothing to teach us. Its basic lesson is a good one to remember; the scriptures read very differently from a point of powerlessness than they do from a point of power. It’s important for those of us in powerful and wealthy societies to make sure we’re listening to what the poor have to teach us (a la St. Francis of Assisi, Dorothy Day, St. Vincent de Paul, etc.).

 

[BackToTheRock]

Just a quick note, the missionary work of the poor with the Catholic Church is realized and exemplified by Matthew 25, self evident throughout the world, has been a very long time. I know of no other who’s effort and effect has shined as brightly as that of the Catholic Church. And as we see, so too this is self evident with our new Holy Father. May our Lord be forever Blessed.

“What you do to the least of them you do to Me”

The RCC is present and at work all over the world. In fact, Catholic Charisties and CRS are often the first “boots on the ground” when disaster strikes.

I think one of the best things we can do for the “least of them” is to listen to what they have to say to us when we’re working on their behalf.

 

[Lapey]

No; it really was well said.

If you believe in relativism.

 

[Lapey]

In that case perhaps you can correct with equal tenacity those who Big Blue Cane referred to. About who is a Catholic and always will be according to what the Catholic Church states as Her answer. Perhaps too you understand my profile better after Big Blue Cane’s post since you seemed bothered by it earlier.

Dude, you need to get over yourself. Your profile is easy to understand. You worship your ideas and personal beliefs more than God. You left a Church that speaks truth that you can’t accept. The Church has not kicked you out, you LEFT HER.

As far as your smaller Church signature goes, you have no idea what that even means. A smaller purer Church doesn’t push people away, it will attract as it did in the beginning. Do you know of any scripture written by Paul to the Churches where he says to do it your way or to believe whatever you want to believe; we are all on our own little faith journey and yours is different than mine. Hog wash! He preached Jesus Christ crucified and convicted people with his preaching, as we do you. Difference is, you do not hear us.

 

[Crescentinus]

Dude, you need to get over yourself. Your profile is easy to understand. You worship your ideas and personal beliefs more than God. You left a Church that speaks truth that you can’t accept. The Church has not kicked you out, you LEFT HER.

As far as your smaller Church signature goes, you have no idea what that even means. A smaller purer Church doesn’t push people away, it will attract as it did in the beginning. Do you know of any scripture written by Paul to the Churches where he says to do it your way or to believe whatever you want to believe; we are all on our own little faith journey and yours is different than mine. Hog wash! He preached Jesus Christ crucified and convicted people with his preaching, as we do you. Difference is, you do not hear us.

:clapping:

 

[BackToTheRock]

If you believe in relativism.

Actually, I believe in relavantism!

 

[BackToTheRock]

If you believe in relativism.

Actually, I believe in relevantism :tiphat:

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Dude, you need to get over yourself. Your profile is easy to understand. You worship your ideas and personal beliefs more than God. You left a Church that speaks truth that you can’t accept. The Church has not kicked you out, you LEFT HER.

As far as your smaller Church signature goes, you have no idea what that even means. A smaller purer Church doesn’t push people away, it will attract as it did in the beginning. Do you know of any scripture written by Paul to the Churches where he says to do it your way or to believe whatever you want to believe; we are all on our own little faith journey and yours is different than mine. Hog wash! He preached Jesus Christ crucified and convicted people with his preaching, as we do you. Difference is, you do not hear us.

It seems like Jesus himself accepted a smaller Church in John 6 when many of his disciples left him and followed him no more. He didn’t try and change his teaching to accommodate them or their beliefs.

The difference is Jesus always did it in love…but sometimes we as Catholics forget that part but we must never water down the truth to accommodate all beliefs…there are enough Protestant churches for that.

 

[BackToTheRock]

Edit (but too late to change the post) When I wrote above “Christianized Marxism” has some legitimacy, I meant to communicate that ***the term ***“Christianized Marxism” has some legitimacy when referring to liberation theology.