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PJD1987
Guest
If anyone finds anything out on this, please update here. I’ll continue to check.
Thank you.
God bless.
-Paul
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Thank you.
God bless.
-Paul
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Elizabeth502
Guest
Oh, I know you wouldn’t “accuse” me of anything, Jason.
Style-wise, he has adopted simpler forms of lifestyle. Previously he took a tram to work. He also has discarded various trappings of wealth, personally, and some even noticed today that he was less willing to “stand on ceremony.” In his preaching he has focused on justice for the poor, so I expect him to encourage initiatives and be the conscience of governments who are neglecting the poor.
You are right, the Church has always worked for the poor. That in itself is no departure. I think, however, some in the hierarchy emphasize this more, some less. He would be on the “more” side, and who knows how he may do so more creatively and persistently than was true in the past. I would be thrilled if he could shame any country in Latin America which now forsakes the poor to Get a Catholic Conscience.
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LisaA
Guest
The Catholic Channel is live with Gus Lloyd from Seize the Day. But so far not much insight into Pope Francis other than he was supposedly “runner up” last time, lives very simply and says gay adoption is child abuse (starting to like him more and more from that comment). His first words were very humble and prayerful. I don’t know that he’ll be a great evangelizer but the thought is that he was chosen as an outsider to clean up the Curia (this is not my opinion just passing on what I heard on TCC)I have not heard anything yet, Paul, because EWTN’s coverage (which is where I would expect it to be, if anywhere) is on Encore mode from earlier today. The secular channels are more interested in “political” kinds of issues, less interested in “insider” stuff like liturgy.
Lisa
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LisaA
Guest
Yes indeed. A former co-worker and her husband were in South America on a mission (Evangelical tradition) commented that the Church is everywhere and no where as far as the average person who lives in utter squalor. She said also more and more of the problem of men abandoning their children so the women and children live in total poverty while the men carouse, drink and live large. A Catholic Conscience is needed in some of those S.A. countries.Oh, I know you wouldn’t “accuse” me of anything, Jason.
Style-wise, he has adopted simpler forms of lifestyle. Previously he took a tram to work. He also has discarded various trappings of wealth, personally, and some even noticed today that he was less willing to “stand on ceremony.” In his preaching he has focused on justice for the poor, so I expect him to encourage initiatives and be the conscience of governments who are neglecting the poor.
You are right, the Church has always worked for the poor. That in itself is no departure. I think, however, some in the hierarchy emphasize this more, some less. He would be on the “more” side, and who knows how he may do so more creatively and persistently than was true in the past. I would be thrilled if he could shame any country in Latin America which now forsakes the poor to Get a Catholic Conscience.
Lisa
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PJD1987
Guest
Maybe cleaning up the Curia in and of itself will lead to more effective evangelization, however.
We live in hope.
God bless.
-Paul
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Elizabeth502
Guest
The entrenched problems of/in the Curia had been mentioned often leading up to the Pope. Remember that I said earlier (
) that the Cardinals were not going to get “everything” that they needed in an “ideal” Pope, but would have to prioritize as to most urgent needs. My guess is that two of their priorities (more than age, interestingly!) were representing a universal Church and choosing a non-Insider. (Being an insider had also been described as being problematic for bureaucratic reform.)One comment in the non-reliable NYT was that an older man is sometimes deliberately chosen in cases of deadlock because his reign might be short. I don’t buy that as a credible reason, simply because the vote was so fast! Not enough time to grow “deadlock.” It seems, rather, that the Cardinals were pretty clear on priorities! And that a Curial “outsider” was probably one of those priorities.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
I think Paul’s right. This was specifically talked about recently, somewhere in a reliable Catholic publication, and/or possibly in a reference to Pope XVI’s own thoughts about evangelization. There’s no question that inefficiency in the Vatican has compromised The New (internal) Evangelization. It has created lots of waste and lots of distraction and inertia in that regard.
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jwinch2
Guest
Thanks for the explanation.Oh, I know you wouldn’t “accuse” me of anything, Jason.
Style-wise, he has adopted simpler forms of lifestyle. Previously he took a tram to work. He also has discarded various trappings of wealth, personally, and some even noticed today that he was less willing to “stand on ceremony.” In his preaching he has focused on justice for the poor, so I expect him to encourage initiatives and be the conscience of governments who are neglecting the poor.
You are right, the Church has always worked for the poor. That in itself is no departure. I think, however, some in the hierarchy emphasize this more, some less. He would be on the “more” side, and who knows how he may do so more creatively and persistently than was true in the past. I would be thrilled if he could shame any country in Latin America which now forsakes the poor to Get a Catholic Conscience.
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JamesCaruso
Guest
I definitely believe that could be true, I just don’t know any. Maybe conservatives in my area are more traditional?
Anyway, contraception is one of the less grave grave sins forbidden by the Church, if that counts for anything. I have heard dissenting Catholics say, “I understand the Church’s position, but it also tells me to follow my conscience, and my conscience says it’s okay.” Dissenting Catholics rely heavily on the “follow your conscience” dictum. What I see is a huge Church constituency that suffers from an erroneous conscience. Here is what the Church says about an erroneous conscience:
1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.
1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.
–From the Catholic Catechism
It’s possible Catholics with views opposing Church teaching are innocent in their views, but, as above, it is also possible they are guilty for their malformed consciences.
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LisaA
Guest
Are you speaking of conservative Catholics or social conservatives in general? I don’t know of another faith that is opposed to artificial means of preventing a pregnancy or in procreating outside of a marriage (IVF, artificial insemination). But of course social conservatives of other faiths are great friends in the fight against abortion.
I think though this goes back to the initial theory about lack of knowledge (poor catechesis) about the faith and about health. I think too many view prohibitions against contraception as spoiling one’s fun but it all ties into the same consistent ethic, how these methods dehumanize us and the relationship as well as making human beings a commodity. THat doesn’t even get into the health concerns that these artificial means can cause.
I am heartened by what I hear of Pope Francis’ outspoken views on the subjects of life.
He was not afraid to engage and opposed government legislation promoting abortion and other anti-life behaviors.
Lisa
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Elizabeth502
Guest
Emphasis mine, because I have done some research on the horrendous statistics of abortion in Latin America, which are mind-boggling, and which belong largely to married, impoverished women whose husbands leave them and do exactly as you state. These women engage in primitive and dangerous abortions (often), at an astounding rate.
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DoGodsBidding
Guest
Your description makes me sorry that I missed the show. Thanks for sharing!Yes, and once again it was hilarious to watch MSNBC. Thankfully, George Weigel quickly disabused the typically overenthusiastic Chris Matthews from fantasizing that the Church is going Left doctrinally. Weigel corrected the imis(name removed by moderator)ression Matthews had that a Jesuit would necessarily bring the Church Left. Au contraire, said Weigel. As a Jewsuit, our new Pope has rejected the heterodoxy of some of his brothers and was quite clear about that.
Further, Weigel had to remind Matthews that this is a man very much in keeping with the JP2 Papcy of traditional Catholicism and a return to orthodoxy. (Matthews, typically, seemed suprrised by that.)
Regarding social justice:
I’m thrilled that he may begin to tackle that problem, particularly in Latin America, but everyone should be prepared for the fact that he and the gov’t of Argentina are oppositional, which I take as a very good thing.
So again:
An orthodox Pope regarding all doctrine, including but not limited to social justice. Plus, a man of God, as Weigel appropriately noted.
The one thing I will tip my hat to Matthews for was that I was waiting for someone to voice what I’ve been thinking since late morning: not just “the south.” The Western Hemisphere. I agree with Matthews that that is as important as “below the equator.”
DGB
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LilyM
Guest
Well, the Cardinals have have had ample time to mull things over both as individuals and collectively ever since Benedict XVI announced his resignation. They would have gone in better prepared and probably rknowing that compromise was necessary.The entrenched problems of/in the Curia had been mentioned often leading up to the Pope. Remember that I said earlier (
One comment in the non-reliable NYT was that an older man is sometimes deliberately chosen in cases of deadlock because his reign might be short. I don’t buy that as a credible reason, simply because the vote was so fast! Not enough time to grow “deadlock.” It seems, rather, that the Cardinals were pretty clear on priorities! And that a Curial “outsider” was probably one of those priorities.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
Good point, Lily. Thanks.
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ProVobis
Guest
It sure was a well-kept secret among 115 individuals. Here in the U.S. we’re not used to that.
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BigBlueCane
Guest
That is true but what happens is people see the church with an ultra obsession with gay marriage, contraception and abortion (granted all topics that have their own merit) yet they don’t come out, visibly, with the same fervor and passion on things like immigration reform, climate change, women’s rights (not reproductive), and for the poor. To many people those issues are more important or more pressing than it is whether or not we should use condoms or not.
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LisaA
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BigBlueCane
Guest
Not in the slightest. I’m telling you what the perception is.
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LisaA
Guest
Among those who are ignorant, those in the MSM and those who hate the Church. I hardly think that the Church demonstrates an “ultra obsession with gay marriage” or spends much time discussing condom use. OTOH Church haters DO spend a lot of time attacking the Church, claiming it is “homophobic” or misogynistic. All those celibate males want to do is spoil everyone’s fornicatin’ fun.
We can do our best to proclaim the Truth but let’s face it, those who hate the Church…to paraphrase Jack Nicholson…can’t handle the Truth. They do much better in the land of illusions.
Lisa
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JamesCaruso
Guest
Any of the issues you mentioned is more important than the millions of unborn children that are slaughtered around the world each year?
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