Poll: Why is the Church losing its young people?

[johnnyc176]

Perhaps a better poll question would be, “Can anyone think of a reason that any well informed young person would choose the Catholic Church, given its reputation?”

Well if they are well informed they would know that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ but that doesn’t negate the fact that we are all sinners within that Church. But since Jesus Christ and His Church are One and the Same the teachings of the Church are True.

 

[epan]

Well if they are well informed they would know that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ but that doesn’t negate the fact that we are all sinners within that Church. But since Jesus Christ and His Church are One and the Same the teachings of the Church are True.

You may have meant, if they are well catechized. The Catholic Church, as we know it, was founded some centuries later, and not by Jesus at all.

If you want to state that each pope was the holy successor to St Peter, and upheld the office, then perhaps we should step through the more notorious ones. I think we can dig up slave ownership, murder on a large scale, embezzlement, sexual exploitation, violation of vows in many ways, persecution of Jews, persecution of gays… It goes on and on. A case could easily be made that this sort of behavior has been normal to the papacy for some centuries. It is all fairly well documents.

Even if we allow your point, then the question we must ask is: would Jesus condone the behavior of today’s Catholic Church? Would Jesus have approved of the horrific antisemitism advocated by the papacy for centuries? Bringing it to the present, would Jesus have protected and facilitated child molesters? Would Jesus have approved of attempts to avoid supporting the victims of molestation and secretive coverups, the evasion of responsibility? Or, would Jesus have advocated moral leadership, and compassion for the victims? I hope that the answer is obvious.

Would you say that the Catholic Church, over the centuries, and today, has been an honest and true representative of the teachings of Christ? I believe that a well informed person must conclude that it is not.

 

[CaliLobo]

You may have meant, if they are well catechized. The Catholic Church, as we know it, was founded some centuries later, and not by Jesus at all.

If you want to state that each pope was the holy successor to St Peter, and upheld the office, then perhaps we should step through the more notorious ones. I think we can dig up slave ownership, murder on a large scale, embezzlement, sexual exploitation, violation of vows in many ways, persecution of Jews, persecution of gays… It goes on and on. A case could easily be made that this sort of behavior has been normal to the papacy for some centuries. It is all fairly well documents.

Even if we allow your point, then the question we must ask is: would Jesus condone the behavior of today’s Catholic Church? Would Jesus have approved of the horrific antisemitism advocated by the papacy for centuries? Bringing it to the present, would Jesus have protected and facilitated child molesters? Would Jesus have approved of attempts to avoid supporting the victims of molestation and secretive coverups, the evasion of responsibility? Or, would Jesus have advocated moral leadership, and compassion for the victims? I hope that the answer is obvious.

Would you say that the Catholic Church, over the centuries, and today, has been an honest and true representative of the teachings of Christ? I believe that a well informed person must conclude that it is not.

Amen. This has been my point on CAF for a long time. Why should we trust a Catholic Magisterium that is not representing or exemplifying Jesus well? Could it be true that the Catholic Church has lost its way, and that Jesus is better represented and exemplified in the Protestant churches?

 

[CaliLobo]

I see no one has replied to my link about what the Catholic Church can do to attract more young people and build community. But I believe it’s highly relevant to this thread.

With permission I would like to repost. If this is a violation I apologize.

Catholics do well with administering the sacraments and building schools and hospitals. But that’s not enough. After all, isn’t church about the people, as well as the worship or the sacraments? Aren’t the relationships between these people crucial to building a church?

Can we honestly say that the Mass and sacraments is enough? Is that all that Jesus did while he was on earth?

Here’s what Protestants do better to foster community:

1. Greeters at the front door that talk to you. Yeah it’s intrusive. Yeah it’s annoying. But that’s the bare minimum. It at least shows they care. Don’t Catholics understand that RANDOM people enter the doors of a church, hoping to hear the voice of God? I know I’ve walked into a parish myself for this same reason. But no one even bothered to talk to me. Who is bothering to even say hi to them? For one moment, you can provide joy to a person who is in pain.
2. Small group ministries. In the same way that Jesus discipled a group of twelve, a church cannot just meet as one big group. Churches should also meet as smaller groups to create discipleship relationships, and to form community. The Bible, and life in general, is discussed. Friendships are formed, many deep. Study materials are used. Meals are eaten. Even parties and hangouts are organized. **Most importantly, this provides the catechesis for ADULTS that Catholic churches lack. **Because catechesis should not stop when you graduate Catholic high school. Do Catholics actually talk about how their spiritual journey is going with each other?

2A) Easier for lay people to actively participate. You want to lead one of these small groups? It is possible. You want to lead worship and play an instrument? It is possible. You want to be a greeter and pass out flyers? Work the sound system? Video editing? Website? Coffee? It is all possible.

1. Meal or hangout after the service. Promote this event as a community-building event, as a crucial part of building a church. Simple eh? **But it makes a huge difference. **I’ve been thinking of returning to the church I went to in 2008-09, because of the efforts they made to build community through this method. I still have very close friends from this church, who truly accept me for who I am. Unfortunately I had to leave, when I moved to Kansas in 2009.
2. Developed college ministries. Because college is an onslaught of secular liberalism. Protestants fight back. Do Catholics? No, I don’t mean just pro-life advocacy. How about building college ministries, with pastors or priests that are relatively young and can relate to this uneasy age? Who can talk about dating, friendship, studying, career, and growth? The uneasiness of emerging adulthood? Let’s aggressively market our ministry in college campuses. Let’s pass out flyers, and invite people to join. Let’s set up a table in the main walkway of campus.** Let’s assertively invite college-age people to church. **Let’s be an active beacon of counterargument against secular liberalism.

4A) On that note, why stop at college campuses? Why not go to malls and stores, and pass out Bibles? Why not just flat out approach strangers, and ask them if we can talk to them about God? Isn’t saving people the most important job of all, the Great Commission?? But I don’t see Catholics even passing out the Catechism, anywhere!

1. Developed young adult services. (Though the trend is back toward age integration.) I still believe this has its usefulness, because once students graduate college, then what? Emerging adulthood is another uneasy time. And what better way to bring young people together? Maybe we can promote Christian marriages this way. I know, let’s modify the music. Soft rock, contemporary, hip-hop, let’s have it all. Let’s not make the liturgy so stuffy. Tradition should not get in the way of bringing people to church, and saving them.
2. Pop culture. Yeah, it’s lame. But look at how many Protestants have been affected by the greatest Protestant musicians like Steven Curtis Chapman. His concerts are ministries in themselves, and people join in and sing along, worshiping along with him. How many have been converted because of his inspiring music?

 

[CaliLobo]

(Continued)

1. **Pastors in Protestant churches are more easily accessible. **They have marriages and families, and live normal lives. They wear normal clothes. They don’t hide behind robes and black coats and collars. That is intimidating. They don’t hide behind their intellect either. That is intimidating. Many Protestant pastors do not have degrees; all they have is street knowledge and wisdom, and the ability to relate to people. That’s all you need. That’s all Jesus needed.
2. RCIA is too much of a barrier to enter the church. It must start in the fall and conclude at Easter, with a period of Mystagogy? Why? And it should be ongoing so anyone can access it at any time, why does it only start in the fall, and if you miss the deadline, you have to wait ONE YEAR? A parish can’t get even one person to commit to being available to help with a yearlong RCIA? In a Protestant church, we’ll baptize you today and deal with your spiritual development one step at a time.

9)** A better business mindset. **Protestants understand this costs money. A sizable minority tithes 10% of its income in Protestant churches. No wonder why they run circles when it comes to preaching, teaching, music, audio, video, TV, and missions. Look at the website of an Evangelical church compared to that of a Catholic parish. Whose is better?

1. Speaking of missions, Protestant missions run circles around Catholic missions. Protestant churches make missions a priority. It is not relegated to the province of the clergy. Protestant churches encourage lay people to participate in missions, therefore boosting the spiritual growth of the lay. Some of the most powerful testimonies are from lay people who have just come back from mission trips. Once again, Protestant churches are re-Christianizing Europe. What is the Catholic church doing to re-Christianize Europe? As an example, look at the website of the ministry I briefly worked with in Poland. You don’t need to understand Polish to get the idea. proem.pl/
2. Sports leagues, anyone? After all, people love sports. What better way to bring people together, to have them work together, get to know each other, and form friendships? We pray before the game too.
3. A culture of lay people informally ministering to one another. We are all saints and priests. Not just the clergy.

It’s not all lost for the Catholic church. Check out what the diocese of Kansas City, MO is doing. Does your diocese have this many events for younger adults?

kansascityonahill.org/

When I lived in Kansas, I was impressed by how alive the dioceae of Kansas and Kansas City, MO were when it comes to building community. I will tell you that their efforts have almost succeeded in converting me to Catholicism. I will testify that my heart is at peace when I visit Kansas and that there is something spiritual about that place. I am not the only one that has said this.

So no, feeding the homeless isn’t enough. And neither is just Mass and sacraments, and the occasional fish fry.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

w

Well it doesn’t matter whether it’s jimmy Akin or somebody else. You stated you wanted a better answer and I suggest you listen for that answer. Conversion has to accompany compassion as Jesus shows us in John 8:11

You misunderstood. I don’t think the Church lacks an answer. I think the Church hasn’t expressed that answer well in a public fashion. Hence I said, “Because the Church has not explained their teaching on homosexuality at all properly”. To explain something properly to young people, you have to get them to listen to you.

Instead, Cathechists have generally rushed through the part about homosexual activity, or not mentioned it at all. But teenagers can tell when a topic is being avoided intentionally.

What many seem to not understand is that conversion is also compassion. Jesus and His Church are also concerned with the salvation of souls.

Well of course they don’t understand it! No one has explained it to them. You can’t blame someone for not knowing something that hasn’t been taught.

 

[GangGreen]

Poor catchesis is #1 on the list. Young people and even adults aren’t being taught real, hard Catholicism. Sin is the last thing on people’s minds. People think, well I didn’t kill anyone, so why go to confession? People have no idea what the Church teaches and even if they know some, they have no idea why. Many people know the Church is against contraception, but they don’t understand why. Homosexual acts, same idea. Fornication, masturbation, abortion, etc. etc. etc. Any controversial topic, most people are aware of the Church’s position, they just flat out think the Church is wrong. Of course on the theological side, many people are as clueless as can be. People aren’t being challenged. We’re told God loves you, and they forget that blessed is the one who fears the Lord and walks in his ways or but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. There’s a lot more to that than just going to Mass once a week or even praying regularly. Yes, these are good things, but walking in the way of the Lord requires one to live their life in accordance with His and His Church’s teachings.

The media says Religion is bad. It tells you not to have fun. When you get to the end of high school and especially college you should be out getting drunk and having sex with random people. Religion gets in the way of that. Society agrees by and large. Take away contraception and suddenly that whole culture gets destroyed. Contraception is what makes it all possible.

Then to add to it that we’ve created this culture where people live in this fantasy world that if I’m religious then nothing bad will happen to me. It’s a false religious belief that has permeated all throughout society. I guess they forget about what happened to Jesus, his Apostles, many of the Saints and Martyrs. All those who faced persecution from the beginning of Christianity to this very day. Instead, they see bad things happen to them or family members they automatically blame God and lose faith. Atheists mock them and say “where’s your God now?” This is another instance of bad education.

The Mass. It’s been beaten to death, so I won’t touch it.

Catholic culture has been beaten to the ground. The art, music, devotions, prayers, rituals, etc. They’ve been stripped away. These which were once a part of every day life for anyone who was Catholic are on life support. So what exactly do people do who are Catholic these days? Go to Mass (which in some places can hardly even feel Catholic) once a week and then that’s all. That’s the average church going Catholic. They are Catholic for one hour a week and then nothing. Of course young people aren’t going to find anything interesting about it or have any desire to follow or learn about it.

 

[john1513]

Parents have been rendered irrelevant in a child’s upbringing. They learn more from their friends, TV, or teachers. If parents do not take their faith (or anything) seriously, children do not take their faith seriously. This problem started a long time ago.

 

[CrossofChrist]

The Catholic Church, as we know it, was founded some centuries later, and not by Jesus at all.

Here is the point of contention, and not just between today’s youth and the Church. In the end, how a person responds to this is why he/she is Catholic or a non-Catholic.

campus.udayton.edu/mary/benedictxvi.html

I am in the Church because I believe that now as formerly, and inexorably through us, behind our Church, His Church lives, and that I cannot remain with him except by remaining in His Church. I am in the Church because, in spite of everything, I believe that at the deepest level it is not our, but His Church. (Joseph Ratzinger)

crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/601/contemplation_of_beauty_cardinal_joseph_ratzinger.html

And again from Ratzinger:

*I have often affirmed my conviction that the true apology of Christian faith, the most convincing demonstration of its truth against every denial, are the saints, and the beauty that the faith has generated. Today, for faith to grow, we must lead ourselves and the persons we meet to encounter the saints and to enter into contact with the Beautiful. *

Just my :twocents:

 

[TCEL]

I see no one has replied to my link about what the Catholic Church can do to attract more young people and build community. But I believe it’s highly relevant to this thread.

In fairness, the churches I’ve been to address almost all the things you mentioned. They aren’t necessarily what attracted me, though they are certainly helpful. Personally, it was strong catechesis, people who knew their stuff, the witness of the saints, and a conversion experience that led me. Along with having to square with the fact of sin. Evangelism really needs to be about balance, with all the emphasis on Christ. I just can’t think of anything more Christ-centered than the Eucharist, and loving witness born out of that. (Think Mother Teresa. They go hand-in-hand, don’t you think?)