LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
I agree with you. That is why I don’t think praying the rosary is a meaningless gesture, and I don’t think voting for an ideal candidate who has little chance in the polls is a meaningless gesture.
- Status
T
Thomas_White
Guest
Got it. Thanks.
I
ishii
Guest
LeafbyNiggle,
When you get in your car do you just pray that you’ll have a safe trip ? Or do you pray AND wear your seatbelt? Do you make sure your child (if you have one), is secure in a child seat? or just pray that they will be safe ?
Voting for Virgil Goode as a pro-life strategy is like praying for a safe journey to point B, then hiding under your bed instead of getting in your car. Then when you don’t get to point B, you say, “at least I’m 100% safe!”
Ishii
T
Tomdstone
Guest
I am sorry to hear that Santorum and Jeb Bush disagree with the Vicar of Christ.
I
ishii
Guest
You’re conflating the two, and misrepresenting what I said. I never said praying is a meaningless gesture. Please don’t misrepresent.
I
ishii
Guest
On what issue? What part of Catholic teaching?
E
estesbob
Guest
Doesn’t look to me like they’re disagreeing with the vicar of Christ :
(188) There are certain environmental issues where it is not easy to achieve a broad consensus. Here I would state once more that the Church does not presume to settle scientific questions or to replace politics. But I am concerned to encourage an honest and open debate so that particular interests or ideologies will not prejudice the common good.
T
Tomdstone
Guest
According to the headers in this thread:
Santorum says Pope Francis has ‘more pressing problems’ than climate change.
‘I won’t take the Pope’s advice on climate change,’ says Jeb Bush
I
ishii
Guest
And the Catholic teaching they are disobeying? Is it the catholic teaching that says, “obey the Pope on all matters of science and non-faith / moral matters” ?
P
pnewton
Guest
It is too early to tell this. I do however question their political savvy for even addressing an encyclical that has not even been released in its final form, know it cannot be released in its final form.
If you want to do something interesting, google this in the news and see how widely the headlines swing in scope, depending on the news outlet.
E
estesbob
Guest
They were asked a question they answered it. Had they not answered it they would’ve been under intense criticism for the left refusing to answer the question. Of course we don’t see these gotcha questions towards Democrat candidates. Do you think someone will ask Hillary Clinton if, given her newfound respect for the pope ,if she now supports Humane Vitae.
At any rate given the Popes specific statement in the encyclical that the church was not going to weigh in on settling matters of science their answers were completely reasonable .
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Your analogy is inadequate because it fails to represent a key characteristic of this decision: You cannot vote for both Romney and Goode. Whereas you can both pray and take actions for a safe trip.
T
tomarin
Guest
I’m wondering why they didn’t at least say “I’d like to read the document and consider it carefully before weighing in since it hasn’t been released in its finished form”.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
The quote of mine that you quoted was not directed to you and was not about you. So I certainly could not be misrepresenting you.
S
sallybutler
Guest
This is from Catholic Answers and explains the differences between the different communications for those (like me) that get confused.
( forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=13058048 )
*What is the difference between an encyclical, an apostolic constitution, a papal bull, and a pastoral letter?
Each of these titles has a certain nuance which distinguishes them from each other. An apostolic constitution represents a very solemn pronouncement issued by the Pope on a doctrinal or disciplinary question. For example, Pope Paul VI’s apostolic constitution Missale Romanum (1969) promulgated for the whole Church the new missal to be used at Mass. (A less weighty matter may also be addressed by a motu proprio which is similar to an executive order.)
A papal “bull” is a very dramatic way of presenting such a solemn pronouncement. Written on parchment, a lead seal (bulla) is attached with cords of silk. On one side of the seal would be the image of the reigning pope, and the other side would bear the images of St. Peter and St. Paul. For example, the dogma of the Assumption of our Blessed Mother was issued through the apostolic constitution, Munificentissimus Deus (1950) in the form of a papal bull. Even the wording indicates the solemn and definitive nature of the teaching: The document begins, “The Apostolic Constitution by which is defined the dogma of faith that Mary, the Virgin Mother of God, has been assumed into Heaven in Body and Soul, Pius the Bishop, Servant of the Servants of God, for everlasting remembrance.”
Broader in scope and less solemn, an encyclical denotes a pastoral letter written by the Holy Father for the entire Church. This document focuses on a pastoral issue concerning a matter of doctrine, morality, devotion, or discipline. Since the earliest days of the Church, Popes have issued this kind of letter. However, Pope Benedict XIV was the first in modern times to specifically use “an encyclical” with his Ubi primum (1740) which dealt with the duties of bishops. (Note that the official title of an encyclical is generally the first two or three words of the text’s Latin translation, the official language of issuance.) Since that time, the Popes have used encyclicals as the normal medium for teaching to the whole Church. Even the salutation of an encyclical captures the broadness of the audience to which it is addressed. For example, Pope John Paul II’s recent encyclical The Gospel of Life (1995) begins with the salutation, “John Paul II to the Bishops, Priests, and Deacons, Men and Women Religious, Lay Faithful, and All People of Good Will on the Value and Inviolability of Human Life.” Sometimes the encyclical may be addressed to a particular audience: For example another recent encyclical The Splendor of Truth (1993) begins, “Venerable Brothers in the Episcopate, Health and the Apostolic Blessing!” indicating its primary audience as the Bishops throughout the world who in turn will teach the people entrusted to their care.
Although encyclicals are not the normal medium through which the Pope would issue an infallible statement (although he could), the teaching contained in the encyclical represents a part of the ordinary magisterium of the Church held by the Holy Father and therefore commands respect and assent. The Dogmatic Constitution on the Church of the Second Vatican Council asserted clearly the role of the Pope as the “supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful” (#25). Even though the teaching may not be formally declared infallible, Vatican II exhorted that “his supreme teaching authority be acknowledged with respect, and sincere assent be given to decisions made by him, conformably with his manifest mind and intention…” and that “loyal submission of the will and intellect must be given…” to the teaching.
Just as the Pope holds universal teaching authority for the whole Church throughout the world, a bishop may write a pastoral letter to instruct the faithful of his diocese. Vatican II stated, “[The Bishops] are authentic teachers… endowed with the authority of Christ, who preach the faith to the people assigned to them, the faith which is destined to inform their thinking and direct their conduct” (Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, #25). Like the encyclical, the subject matter may be doctrinal, moral, devotional, or disciplinary. For example, Bishop John Keating has written several pastoral letters during his tenure as Bishop of the Diocese of Arlington: A Pastoral Letter on Morality and Conscience (1994) was more doctrinal, A Pastoral Letter on Parish Councils (1985) was more disciplinary, and A Pastoral Letter on Reverence for the Eucharist (1988) was doctrinal, devotional, and disciplinary. In turn, the faithful of the diocese are called “to adhere to [the teaching] with a ready and respectful allegiance of mind” (#25).
Several bishops may jointly issue a pastoral letter. For example, recently the Bishops of the Provinces of Baltimore and Washington issued a pastoral letter during Lent, 1992, encouraging people to utilize the Sacrament of Penance. The National Conference of Catholic Bishops has also written numerous pastoral letters providing guidance to Catholics throughout the United States.
In all, through these various documents, the Church continues to preserve the faith and to address issues confronting the faithful today so that they can live an authentic Christian life.*
( forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=13058048 )
*What is the difference between an encyclical, an apostolic constitution, a papal bull, and a pastoral letter?
Each of these titles has a certain nuance which distinguishes them from each other. An apostolic constitution represents a very solemn pronouncement issued by the Pope on a doctrinal or disciplinary question. For example, Pope Paul VI’s apostolic constitution Missale Romanum (1969) promulgated for the whole Church the new missal to be used at Mass. (A less weighty matter may also be addressed by a motu proprio which is similar to an executive order.)
A papal “bull” is a very dramatic way of presenting such a solemn pronouncement. Written on parchment, a lead seal (bulla) is attached with cords of silk. On one side of the seal would be the image of the reigning pope, and the other side would bear the images of St. Peter and St. Paul. For example, the dogma of the Assumption of our Blessed Mother was issued through the apostolic constitution, Munificentissimus Deus (1950) in the form of a papal bull. Even the wording indicates the solemn and definitive nature of the teaching: The document begins, “The Apostolic Constitution by which is defined the dogma of faith that Mary, the Virgin Mother of God, has been assumed into Heaven in Body and Soul, Pius the Bishop, Servant of the Servants of God, for everlasting remembrance.”
Broader in scope and less solemn, an encyclical denotes a pastoral letter written by the Holy Father for the entire Church. This document focuses on a pastoral issue concerning a matter of doctrine, morality, devotion, or discipline. Since the earliest days of the Church, Popes have issued this kind of letter. However, Pope Benedict XIV was the first in modern times to specifically use “an encyclical” with his Ubi primum (1740) which dealt with the duties of bishops. (Note that the official title of an encyclical is generally the first two or three words of the text’s Latin translation, the official language of issuance.) Since that time, the Popes have used encyclicals as the normal medium for teaching to the whole Church. Even the salutation of an encyclical captures the broadness of the audience to which it is addressed. For example, Pope John Paul II’s recent encyclical The Gospel of Life (1995) begins with the salutation, “John Paul II to the Bishops, Priests, and Deacons, Men and Women Religious, Lay Faithful, and All People of Good Will on the Value and Inviolability of Human Life.” Sometimes the encyclical may be addressed to a particular audience: For example another recent encyclical The Splendor of Truth (1993) begins, “Venerable Brothers in the Episcopate, Health and the Apostolic Blessing!” indicating its primary audience as the Bishops throughout the world who in turn will teach the people entrusted to their care.
Although encyclicals are not the normal medium through which the Pope would issue an infallible statement (although he could), the teaching contained in the encyclical represents a part of the ordinary magisterium of the Church held by the Holy Father and therefore commands respect and assent. The Dogmatic Constitution on the Church of the Second Vatican Council asserted clearly the role of the Pope as the “supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful” (#25). Even though the teaching may not be formally declared infallible, Vatican II exhorted that “his supreme teaching authority be acknowledged with respect, and sincere assent be given to decisions made by him, conformably with his manifest mind and intention…” and that “loyal submission of the will and intellect must be given…” to the teaching.
Just as the Pope holds universal teaching authority for the whole Church throughout the world, a bishop may write a pastoral letter to instruct the faithful of his diocese. Vatican II stated, “[The Bishops] are authentic teachers… endowed with the authority of Christ, who preach the faith to the people assigned to them, the faith which is destined to inform their thinking and direct their conduct” (Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, #25). Like the encyclical, the subject matter may be doctrinal, moral, devotional, or disciplinary. For example, Bishop John Keating has written several pastoral letters during his tenure as Bishop of the Diocese of Arlington: A Pastoral Letter on Morality and Conscience (1994) was more doctrinal, A Pastoral Letter on Parish Councils (1985) was more disciplinary, and A Pastoral Letter on Reverence for the Eucharist (1988) was doctrinal, devotional, and disciplinary. In turn, the faithful of the diocese are called “to adhere to [the teaching] with a ready and respectful allegiance of mind” (#25).
Several bishops may jointly issue a pastoral letter. For example, recently the Bishops of the Provinces of Baltimore and Washington issued a pastoral letter during Lent, 1992, encouraging people to utilize the Sacrament of Penance. The National Conference of Catholic Bishops has also written numerous pastoral letters providing guidance to Catholics throughout the United States.
In all, through these various documents, the Church continues to preserve the faith and to address issues confronting the faithful today so that they can live an authentic Christian life.*
E
estesbob
Guest
So what did voting for Goode accomplish?
P
pnewton
Guest
That is the answer that first popped to my mind when I heard this stuff had been leaked.
S
stinkcat_14
Guest
At least as much good as voting for Romney accomplished.
T
tomarin
Guest
Great minds, & etc.
E
estesbob
Guest
If all those who claimed to be pro-life had voted for Romney he would have won. we don’t bring about change by throwing our votes away on unviable canidates in order to make ourselves feel “good”
- Status