Pope attacks mega-salaries and wealth gap in peace message

[ishii]

I
If the right came out and said we are going to cut X dept and the money we save we are going to give to innovative programs to cut poverty I would be 100% for it but I don’t hear them say that.

Here is an idea. We spend more on prisons in the US than on education. About 70% of prison sentences are drug related. Let’s legalize drugs and use the savings for some sensible programs to reduce poverty. Most of my career has been working with addictions. Several years ago I was against legalizing drugs but if money can be saved and used for a better cause then why not. One of my favorite Republicans was William Buckley who was for legalizing drugs well before we had anywhere near the problems we have now.

Don’t tell me what you are against tell me what you are for. Cutting programs to lower taxes won’t do much for the poor who don’t pay taxes to begin with. So what are you for?

The problem is there aren’t “innovative government programs” that cut poverty. The root causes of poverty are social, brought upon by decades of govt. policies that encourage dependency, as well as other factors - divorce, illegitimacy, etc.

Our problems are spiritual and moral, as your example of high drug addictions demonstrates. There isn’t a quick fix to that problem. What’s needed is spiritual renewal. In the meantime, we shouldn’t make it worse by throwing money at solutions that don’t work. As for legalization of drugs, that was one issue which I disagreed with WFB on, but I can understand the case to be made and I think its an honorable one.

Ishii

 

[HappyCatholic01]

Who pays the wage - MacDonald’s or the immigrant? That is the party responsible for making sure it’s a living wage. No excuses, no qualifications.

Like I said, we can discuss what is a fair wage, but if your plan was to come here, get a job, then demand more because the job doesn’t support the life you have chosen, you have a horrible plan, and need to take some responsibility for those decisions.

As I have said before, as long as you and I are willing to pay for the rate hikes in the form of prices, I don’t mind. Because the only way it will ever happen is from higher food prices, or fewer jobs/hours. Expecting it to come from anything else is silly. No share holder is going to front the money for the company’s stock if the value continually drops due to a thinner profit margin. Shedding these stocks in turns usually leads to downsizing, which isn’t going to help anyone.

I still believe fighting for double the current wage with no plan to actually improve people’s lot in life in real ways like education, better families and living according to more Godly virtues is a waste of time in the long run. Without those, you can raise the minimum wage as high as you want, and those earning it will always be behind and trying to catch up.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Mary thank you, I somehow recalled it was a Pew Research study. Stinkcat take note above. There is one of the studies that documents how much of our eventual risk of poverty is within our own hands.

The problem with this study is limits its analysis to people who come from families in the bottom 20% of income. The problem is, that if you are in the upper part of the income distribution and you get pregnant, your parents will probably take you to the clinic and get the problem solved. So for upper income folks, getting pregnant is not harmful. Same thing for education, the parents likely don’t allow dropping out.

However the reality is that with generational poverty and unformed family structure we now have several generations of children born into the kind of circumstances that make their rise into middle class extremely difficult.

The real question is how to stop this. I personally think we should bring back orphanages. If you have to go on the dole, you have no business having a child in your possession, end of story.

Throwing money at the problem which is the usual Leftist meme does NOT SOLVE THE UNDERLYING ISSUES. Whenever I hears screams and howls from the Left about some program being cut, it disguises the reality that we should look at why such a program was necessary in the first place rather than continue to feed the beast ever increasing rations. That solves nothing and increases our country’s debt which will be visited upon future generations.

Lisa

I never argued that more money should be thrown at the problem, unless it is to build orphanges. And that money can be easily taken by making the able bodied people over 65 work instead of collecting social security.

 

[frobert]

You make a lot of good points…but does the student not play a role in getting into the mess to begin with? My point about people being financially dependent is that many, many times they are their because of their own decisions.

Please tell the to parents on social security who child’s college loan was defaulted on and now their the defaulted loan is being deducted from their SS.

The fault is the system that encouraged student loans. A direct result of student loans was colleges raising their tuition. Making it easy for gullible families and student to get loans, then dumping the loan on the tax payers. I suppose an online degree from Phoenix University is a good deal, after all they are offering everyone a 10,000 scholarship.The loans are evil. The people who benefit are corporations and financial institutions. If you had to pay your taxes directly to those that benefit I don’t think you would be sanguine about it. Am I saying that the families and students are innocent bystanders, NO but they were seduced by a evil government sponsored system that they believe would benefit them.

I have a PhD. I did the math and all my years at private universities cost about the same as a year or two at a Florida state university. I graduated with 0 debt. I am lucky that I did not have the seductive loans available to me.

sarcasm
Of course government and financial institutions deserve every penny they earned from pushing evil loans.
/sarcasm

 

[pnewton]

Thanks for the quote. What stands out to me is the “contempt for” the “weakest” and those considered “useless”. In the last year or two, it has hit me like a ton of bricks - this contempt of which the Pope speaks. The uncharitable attitude and frank insults directed at the poor have really been disturbing to me; people, even in the public arena, discussing the poor like the objects of their attacks cannot hear the condescending, dismissive narrative being used to blame them for their own poverty or disadvantage.

I noticed that. I bet it happens again on this thread.

 

[pnewton]

SuperLuigi;11490081:

USA conservatives,

for giving 4 times as much to charity than the liberal left, despite the fact that you make less money. :thumbsup:I thank him for reminding me to exercise my faith above my politics.

 

[gnjsdad]

I
People are misreading the Pope left and right (literally) through their own narrow political lens.

Those Catholics on the ideological right on economics are going to have to decide: are they on the side of the Church and the Pope or are they on the side of the capitalists? If it’s the Pope, they’re going to have to abandon their capitalist ideology. The first step is to stop pretending that the Pope is being “mistranslated” or that his real message is being somehow corrupted by a scheming media.

As far as those on the left, they are right now receptive to this new Pope’s message. Let’s see if this receptivity turns into a more solid conviction to abandon their sexual liberation ideology.

SuperLuigi:

It just goes to show how America and the West in general have become polarized.

More ideololgized, I’d say.

 

[pnewton]

Be nice if the Reuters headline actually matched what he said.

Agreed. I appreciate stinkcat linking the Vatican.

 

[frobert]

The problem is there aren’t “innovative government programs” that cut poverty. The root causes of poverty are social, brought upon by decades of govt. policies that encourage dependency, as well as other factors - divorce, illegitimacy, etc.

Our problems are spiritual and moral, as your example of high drug addictions demonstrates. There isn’t a quick fix to that problem. What’s needed is spiritual renewal. In the meantime, we shouldn’t make it worse by throwing money at solutions that don’t work. As for legalization of drugs, that was one issue which I disagreed with WFB on, but I can understand the case to be made and I think its an honorable one.

Ishii

I agree that the government is a big part of the problem because all it cares about is their big money donors whether from a union or big business or just plain wealthy. Their bases get a bit of the swag, just enough to keep them in office.

What programs are you talking about? I don’t know of any, there may be some that I am unaware of. If I know of them I could at the least encourage politicians to support them.

If you believe that spiritual renewal will solve the problem get your parish to sponsor programs that will draw in the youth of your community. It is strange that Islamic countries can get their youth so involved that they will commit suicide for the cause but in the US we are unable to get our youth to attend church regularly. I don’t how the government can do spiritual renewal.

 

[estesbob]

Those Catholics on the ideological right on economics are going to have to decide: are they on the side of the Church and the Pope or are they on the side of the capitalists? If it’s the Pope, they’re going to have to abandon their capitalist ideology. The first step is to stop pretending that the Pope is being “mistranslated” or that his real message is being somehow corrupted by a scheming media.

As far as those on the left, they are right now receptive to this new Pope’s message. Let’s see if this receptivity turns into a more solid conviction to abandon their sexual liberation ideology.

More ideololgized, I’d say.

So if we abandon our capitalist ideology what do we replace it with? Also please point out every the Pope said we should abandon our capitalist ideology.

 

[shockerfan]

Those Catholics on the ideological right on economics are going to have to decide: are they on the side of the Church and the Pope or are they on the side of the capitalists? If it’s the Pope, they’re going to have to abandon their capitalist ideology. The first step is to stop pretending that the Pope is being “mistranslated” or that his real message is being somehow corrupted by a scheming media.

As far as those on the left, they are right now receptive to this new Pope’s message. Let’s see if this receptivity turns into a more solid conviction to abandon their sexual liberation ideology.

More ideololgized, I’d say.

The left will have to deal with the unsustainability of their economic policies. From our Pope in Evangelii Gaudium (56)
“Debt and the accumulation of interest also make it difficult for countries to realize the potential of their own economies and keep citizens from enjoying their real purchasing power.”

 

[stinkcat_14]

The left will have to deal with the unsustainability of their economic policies. From our Pope in Evangelii Gaudium (56)
“Debt and the accumulation of interest also make it difficult for countries to realize the potential of their own economies and keep citizens from enjoying their real purchasing power.”

Since when is borrowing money restricted to the left?

 

[SuperLuigi]

My experience in an a Catholic school from K to 8th grade is somewhat different than yours. I am older than you but at the time I attended a Catholic school, most of the nuns teaching did not possess more than a HS education. As a result I did not learn how to read properly until I was in my early 20s. Till I my 20s I had very low self esteem and opinion of myself, I thought I was "retarded.’ I had a lot to overcome to finally earn a PhD. I have forgiven the nuns and the CC that allowed such a betrayal but the memory still remains.

Thank God that today parochial schools must adhere to state standards of education.

I’m sorry you’ve had a bad experience, but it is very commendable that you are willing to most past it and forgive people in the past. A lot of people hold those grudges for a long time.

Your charity is inspiring!

 

[SuperLuigi]

Since when is borrowing money restricted to the left?

Since never.

And there’s nothing wrong with borrowing money, just as long it’s done responsibly.

A country with 315 million people and an anemic birth-rate can’t handle the burden of 17 trillion USD of debt with another 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

 

[pnewton]

I am confused by our Holy Pope Francis, children borne out wedlock will have a good chance of being poor ,Gay marriage, abortion and pornography are destroying our country. He said not to focus on only 2 issues abortion and homosexuality, is he not doing the same just focusing on capitalism?

No, he is not. As to the rest, I am sure there are people closer to him than you that will try and tell him what he should say or address, but he is his own man and will lead as he sees best.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Since never.

And there’s nothing wrong with borrowing money, just as long it’s done responsibly.

Since when has the government ever borrowed responsibly?

A country with 315 million people and an anemic birth-rate can’t handle the burden of 17 trillion USD of debt with another 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

And this is all the fault of the left?

 

[pnewton]

So if we abandon our capitalist ideology what do we replace it with? Also please point out every the Pope said we should abandon our capitalist ideology.

I think what is being asked is not an abandonment of capitalism, but examining how free it is and whether it is restricted in a manner that benefits all of society. Unrestricted capitalism has been condemned by previous popes, as has communism. Now we can look at what restrictions work and what do not, but I have to agree with the Holy Father that current compensation disparity is an indication of a broken society.

 

[shockerfan]

Since when is borrowing money restricted to the left?

its not, but certainly debt finds more approval on the left.

 

[stinkcat_14]

its not, but certainly debt finds more approval on the left.

Source?

 

[shockerfan]

Source?

seriously?

I am the source of that statement. Who in government whines the loudest over meager cuts in the budget? Who is more likely to call a reduction in an increase in spending as “draconian”. Who votes for bills so they can find out whats in them?
etc, etc, etc