Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

[gracepoole]

To me, it doesn’t seem like modernism – it seems ancient, if you get my meaning. I’m sure some will read my words here and nod emphatically to a meaning I don’t intend. But it seems that Francis is fond of reverting to a far more early Christian view – stripping the Church down to essentials (Christ and His bride).

Stripping down the Church to its essentials? Sounds like what Martin Luther was trying to do.

Well, I did say I saw it coming…

 

[CrossofChrist]

Very interesting point there.

Yet the world loved John XXIII. He’s a saint.

Or at least loved the man they thought they knew. Did they really know him? And does the world really know Francis, or just some false caricature of him?

 

[einna]

But it is our place to guide people away from error.

Absolutely, guide them is a good way to put it. Then teach them what the Church teaches, but in the end everyone salvation is in God’s hands.

 

[AdvanceAlways]

Absolutely, guide them is a good way to put it. Then teach them what the Church teaches, but in the end everyone salvation is in God’s hands.

Exactly, our main goal is to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, but we do have a responsibility to help others, especially when the world is leading people to hell.

 

[CrossofChrist]

So many posts in this thread in a short time.
Just wanted to contribute by saying:
God is still God, man is still man, the Church is still the Church and the media is still the media.
.
This doesn’t change anything. The Church is the mystical body of Christ and is not sustained by its own merits.

yep

 

[AdvanceAlways]

I’d simply like to ask everyone, how would you tell the 3,000 babies aborted in America alone, every day, that their lives simply need to be placed in a broader context?

 

[Cider]

How? And I mean that with all sincerity. Should he just shut up then? Should he not preach the Gospel then?

I already posted how in an earlier reply but I’ll repeat it here. I think more effort should be spent on choosing words carefully. If you’ve spent any time at all on CAF you know that it’s a requirement to presume that people will misinterpret what you say and to preemptively address the inaccurate assumptions people might presume. I personally find it annoying here, but I’m not Pope. The whole world is not waiting to twist what I say.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Let’s not just talk about sex – what Pope Francis really said to the Jesuit Interviewer

 

[Cider]

The Holy Father is 110% correct. Look. It’s fine to think of abortion as an evil or gay marriage as something that only exists in scare quotes. However, it should not be the focus for all of ours or the clergy’s time and money. The poor? Schools? Putting children with wonderful couples and hospitals? What about that?

If it was even 25% of clergy’s time spent you might have a point. But it’s not even close to that. That is what is so ironic.

 

[Cle_GDP_10]

huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/19/pope-francis-gay_n_3954776.html?utm_hp_ref=religion

The Huffington Post article seems worse.

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/543928_238150956334654_899823153_n.jpg

 

[Country_Gal]

Let’s face it, Jesus uttered ZERO recorded words about homosexuality, birth control, or abortion. And. yes, women always had means of avoiding or ridding themselves of unwanted pregnancies, even before modern techniques.

Jesus did speak of caring for the poor, the prisoners, the oppressed. He spoke of the greed of the wealthy, the hypocrisy of religious authorities, and about religious show offs. He encouraged humility.

 

[AdvanceAlways]

Let’s face it, Jesus uttered ZERO recorded words about homosexuality, birth control, or abortion. And. yes, women always had means of avoiding or ridding themselves of unwanted pregnancies, even before modern techniques.

Jesus did speak of caring for the poor, the prisoners, the oppressed. He spoke of the greed of the wealthy, the hypocrisy of religious authorities, and about religious show offs. He encouraged humility.

And again folks, this here is an example of the types who will be empowered by Francis’ words. The types who will say “so what about abortion, so what about marriage.”

Country Gal, Jesus also said the poor will always be with us.

 

[Country_Gal]

And again folks, this here is an example of the types who will be empowered by Francis’ words. The types who will say “so what about abortion, so what about marriage.”

Country Gal, Jesus also said the poor will always be with us.

“The types”? And what “type” do you speak of? I happen to be against abortion, if you want to know. And, I think my “type” is also worthy of respect and love.

 

[gracepoole]

I’d simply like to ask everyone, how would you tell the 3,000 babies aborted in America alone, every day, that their lives simply need to be placed in a broader context?

I understand your passion but this is an appeal to emotion that does little to move toward a clearer understanding of the pope’s words. How do we justify placing the millions in poverty in a broader context? Or the victims of sexual trafficking? Or…

Let’s face it, Jesus uttered ZERO recorded words about homosexuality, birth control, or abortion. And. yes, women always had means of avoiding or ridding themselves of unwanted pregnancies, even before modern techniques.

Jesus did speak of caring for the poor, the prisoners, the oppressed. He spoke of the greed of the wealthy, the hypocrisy of religious authorities, and about religious show offs. He encouraged humility.

 

[einna]

Exactly, our main goal is to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, but we do have a responsibility to help others, especially when the world is leading people to hell.

Our main goal is to love and serve God. All the Jesuits I have ever know, and I am not young, teach about a loving forgiving God and because of this we worked very hard not to sin and not to disappoint Him. You will always have those people that fall away from Him no matter how you present our faith. This Pope is just reminding us of a part of the message of out faith He feel needs to be addressed.

 

[newsmike]

One issue we face today as Christians is not clearly addressed in Scripture or by Christ in the gospels as far as I can tell.

Did Jesus start conversations by condemning the adulteress or the tax collector? Nope.

But is that directly relevant? Was there a widespread effort among the Jewish people of Jesus’ day to declare it morally GOOD for a woman to sleep with men not their husbands? Was there a sizable PR campaign to morally rationalize the embezzling endemic to the profession of tax collecting in the day? I’m aware of neither.

What do you suppose Sandra Fluke (for example) would say to Jesus if she encountered him on the street? I’m not really sure.

It’s one thing to be mercifully silent to those painfully aware of their sin out of love for them. It’s quite another to smile and nod at those who vigorously proclaim that their sins are VIRTUES. I’m not sure we have divine direction on that one. What do you guys say?

Brilliant! Spot on. This point is missed by most who don’t understand that evil has a good PR agency now, it has lobbyists and billions of dollars on the line. It is naïve to think otherwise. Society is slipping to new lows and we seem to think that applying the same methods that we have all along the decline will somehow reap different results.

 

[AdvanceAlways]

I understand your passion but this is an appeal to emotion that does little to move toward a clearer understanding of the pope’s words. How do we justify placing the millions in poverty in a broader context? Or the victims of sexual trafficking? Or…

Gracepoole, none of it can be justified, none of it. Moral evils are moral evils, be it abortion, human trafficking, exploitation of the poor, all must be a priority of the Church. Which is why I don’t understand why our Holy Father is knocking one for the other. No one has been able to say how this will not give credence to every pro-choice “Catholic” politician out there, all they have to say now is" “the Pope says abortion is no biggie! We have other problems!”

 

[agnes_therese]

I’d simply like to ask everyone, how would you tell the 3,000 babies aborted in America alone, every day, that their lives simply need to be placed in a broader context?

How will we stop those abortions if hearts are not changed? And how will hearts be changed if we can’t bring people to Christ?

 

[weller2]

I’d simply like to ask everyone, how would you tell the 3,000 babies aborted in America alone, every day, that their lives simply need to be placed in a broader context?

Well, that’s easy.

We could start with the role of abortion in US political system. The first observation is that promising to outlaw abortion wins votes, but realizing that promise would eliminate the voting platform (and lose votes). Since politicians are driven by self-interest, it logically follows that they will always make promises but never fulfill them.

With that out of the way, we could discuss what else could be done, but isn’t, because the energy to do that is being constantly redirected towards putting some folks in comfy chairs in D.C…

Once that is out of the way, we could move to discuss the widespread phenomenon of folks who are both pro-choice and anti-abortion and why have they been made into an enemy instead of an ally.

 

[Havard]

Liberals - you’re right that we should break bread with anyone, as the Lord did, and always approach people with compassionate hearts.
Conservatives - you’re right that we should share moral truths with others, as the Lord did, even if those moral truths are very unpopular in our culture/society

It’s “AND”, not “or”.

Let’s put this false dilemma to rest!