Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

  • Thread starter Thread starter AdvanceAlways
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
That’s why it’s interesting to see all of the uneasiness and discomfort expressed here in the wake of comments by a liberal minded Pope. Many here are expressing fears that they will no longer be able to “have it their way”. I think the fears are unfounded, but there is definitely a sense of discomfort in some of these posts, which suggest that some might not be on board with Catholicism if it takes a hard liberal turn. The Pope very clearly stated that he is no “right-winger”.
Clearly, yet I fail to see liberal though. Its a pastoral call by a religious back to the center, not to the left or right. The balance is needed, there will always be left and right but today we have division because of it. And in a very climatic period. Its pride be it left or right.

Problem is many believe right and left is the center.
 
Vatican warns John Kerry not to take Holy Communion …
tldm.org/news6/vaticanwar…ion.htm‎

Bishop Would Deny Rite for Defiant Catholic Voters - NYTimes.com
nytimes.com/2004/05/14/na…op.html‎

19 arrested at Notre Dame protest against Obama -
[www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCSu(name removed by moderator)vBXU‎](www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCSu(name removed by moderator)vBXU‎)

Notre Dame, Catholic institutions sue Obama over contraception …
thehill.com/.../228585-washington-archdiocese-sues-administration-over

Biden, Pelosi Stir Controversy by Taking Communion - Ken Walsh’s …
www.usnews.com › News › Ken Walsh’s Washington‎

Etc. etc. etc. American Culture War. Republican/Catholic Obsession with Culture War hot topic issues. The aligning of religion and politics in a toxic way.
This is not an obsession! This is telling people who support the slaughter of children that they are in violation of the teachings of the Catholic Church and are using their positions of authority to MURDER children.
 
As for contraception, abortion, and gay marriage, I think that over the course of the last 20 years or more, the number of times I have heard homilies on those matters could be counted on one hand. In the normal course of parish life, I hardly hear them mentioned. The only place I really hear them discussed much is right here on CAF. That hardly seems an obsession.

The real obsession on these matters seems to be in the secular media which daily proclaim in every manner the gospel of gay marriage, ‘reproductive freedom,’ and contraception. The Church has been reactive in these matters, not pro-active. The time for obsession was back in the 1960’s. Now, the cause has pretty much been lost.

But those moral standards are still worth fighting for, since they form the basis of family and civilization. The acceptance of contraception started us on a decades long erosion of the family, which even now proceeds apace. I simply don’t see an obsession which has not been forced upon us. Do Catholics wish to throw in the towel on cultural collapse? I hope not.
Well, I have to say that with all of what the media has reported, there should be no question of where the Church stands on the moral issues. I know that there are parishes out there that are not like ours, but there has been no lack of preaching on these subjects in our parish and I am pleased that our pastor/ and former pastors have always spoken about the love and mercy of God while giving the truth of what the Church teaches. That is being a good shepherd- one who is concerned about the salvation of souls. But you have to get them in the door first.
 
There are many people that are very sorry for their sins but do not feel worthy of forgiveness. I knew one woman in a dire situation had an abortion and could simply not ask for anyone’s forgiveness, especially God’s. She knew she belonged in Hell. It took her over 20 years to find a priest, a Jesuit priest, who convinced her she was worth of God love and forgiveness.

I think that is why it is hard to hear some on here, not you, who are condemning and saying people are going to Hell over this or this. God knows what is in our heart and he knows when we are truly sorry and feel unworthy. Pope Francis is trying to remind people how much God loves them and wants to forgive them for any sin.
I don’t know a single priest who would condemn that woman. I’m glad that she found God’s mercy and reached out to that Jesuit priest. Anyone who is condemning anyone to hell needs to check themselves, seeing as we cannot say who is in hell and who isn’t. What I’m saying is, that it is not as if priests or the faithful with the exception of Jesuits, were damning women who sought their assistance after an abortion.
 
This is not an obsession! This is telling people who support the slaughter of children that they are in violation of the teachings of the Catholic Church and are using their positions of authority to MURDER children.
Well, good luck with that rebranding.
 
Agreed, but you seem to suggest ( you did NOT state) that those babies dying through abortions are more important that the children dying of starvation or who are murdered. I don’t believe any life is worth more or less in God’s eyes just because of how they are killed or for what reason. Every child, or adult who dies is a child of God.
Again, no one is disputing this. What some of us are disputing is that we need to stop “obsessing” over one in favor of the other, which it seemed our Holy Father implied.
 
I never heard about contraception in its fullness or humanae vitae. I knew the Church disapproved maybe even acknowledged remotely they had their reasons, but I didn’t know really why.
That’s the problem-- most Catholics seem to own Bibles and Catechisms but never read or study them—yet probably spend their time on the noise of useless information and entertainment as much as their non-catholic neighbors. These teachings on abortion, contraception and homosexual acts are very clear in the Catechism–but these are not the only topics covered in the Bible or the Catechism, which is the point the pope is making. Never mind the sensational secular headlines.
Now all of a sudden Catholics are chastizing Catholics who may not have been guilty of any wrong doing??? Fr Pavone was wrong?? Lila Rose was single minded??
Now you’re making assumptions.
His answer about homosexuality was vague and he didn’t even answer his own question by the end of it. It gave no one a real answer.
The problem is that you are not reading carefully what the pope said—and you’re missing his very important point—which happens to be the same one Jesus made when the people were ready to stone the woman to death for committing adultery. We are here to help people reach heaven, not to condemn or be their judge here on earth. God doesn’t send anyone to hell—people send themselves. God permits this even though His desire is that everyone be saved.
Any true secular homosexual on the outside, why should he be interested in God’s mercy, if there is no need to repent?
Again, you need to read carefully what the pope said despite the sensational headlines. Read what the pope said:

“The most important thing is the first proclamation: Jesus Christ has saved you. And the ministers of the church must be ministers of mercy above all. The confessor, for example, is always in danger of being either too much of a rigorist or too lax. Neither is merciful, because neither of them really takes responsibility for the person. The rigorist washes his hands so that he leaves it to the commandment. The loose minister washes his hands by simply saying, ‘This is not a sin’ or something like that. . .The church’s ministers must be merciful, take responsibility for the people and accompany them like the good Samaritan, who washes, cleans and raises up his neighbor.”
His statements as Bishop Bergoglio, for some reason are completely different than the tone he has now.
No. He’s saying exactly what he said in the past. He condemns sin but lives the sinner. Understand that a single drop of honey attracts more flies than a gallon of vinegar. Everybody already knows that the Church teaches that homosexual activity is a grave sin. We are all sinners and wounded by sin, thus he describes the Church as a hospital to heal wounds; and homosexual lifestyles wounds a person, much like the lifestyle you may have been living wounded you before you turned to Christ.

So the story goes about the priest who was sent to a new diocese, and while preparing for his first mass there, he asked the sacristan what are the people there like. “oh father,” replied the sacristan, “these people are vindictive and grudge-holding gossipers, always pointing out other people’s faults—but they are very good Catholics–they come to mass every Sunday and receive the sacraments faithfully.”

Now notice how Jesus dealt with a person who was living a very sinful life:
img513.imageshack.us/img513/397/sl6c.jpg
 
While I’m in no way a supporter of Gay Marriage or Abortion, I do believe Pope Francis has a point. We are the Catholic church, here for the salvation of all mankind. We can’t ostracize people, they are human beings as well. Preaching against gay marriage and abortion until we’re blue in the face won’t lead others to the Catholic church, living a Catholic lifestyle and being an example for others however will, and with that brings an end to things like abortion and gay marriage.
Well said! Thank you.
 
Human beings have an innate capacity for the spiritual…this is sacred. Religious dogma is not sacred, it is an opinion that has evolved over time.
theworkofgod.org/dogmas.htm

If your asking me do I believe Jesus Christ saves outside His Church? Yes its Biblical, but there’s a finality to that, not for the faint of heart. That’s the path that leaves one on their death bed begging God for forgiveness. Instead of already being prepared. Trust me I too thought I was all that and a bag of chips. I thank God to this day for the blessing of another chance.
 
And yet I say that the earth is round.
That was not a dogmatic teaching of the Church, and if you don’t know that you really should study true history and not just parrot the modernist/revisionist nonsense written by the seularists of today.

KNK
 
I don’t know a single priest who would condemn that woman. I’m glad that she found God’s mercy and reached out to that Jesuit priest. Anyone who is condemning anyone to hell needs to check themselves, seeing as we cannot say who is in hell and who isn’t. What I’m saying is, that it is not as if priests or the faithful with the exception of Jesuits, were damning women who sought their assistance after an abortion.
I am sorry to suggest that there were numerous priest who condemned her. She only need one and then gave up looking for another until she moved and happened on a Jesuit parish. I am sure she could have happened on a Jesuit priest that would condemned her also, she just got lucky. I seriously doubt today that you could find many priest that would condemn, but people have to stop doing it in the name of their faith, and there are many that think it is our responsibility. We need to teach, guide, and help others on the wrong ways and then be there for them when they make good, although maybe very hard decisions.

I do have to wonder if “obsession” was the real word Pope Francis used. If it was, he really could have picked a more suitable words; however, please remember, he is different than the past 2 Popes in that he does not have a gift for doing interviews. Let us try to forgive him and pray he gets better. In the mean time I hope you continue fighting against abortion and have patience with our new Pope, as many of us had patience and tried to see the good in Pope Benedict. I admire you energy and spirit in your fight.
 
While I’m in no way a supporter of Gay Marriage or Abortion, I do believe Pope Francis has a point. We are the Catholic church, here for the salvation of all mankind. We can’t ostracize people, they are human beings as well. Preaching against gay marriage and abortion until we’re blue in the face won’t lead others to the Catholic church, living a Catholic lifestyle and being an example for others however will, and with that brings an end to things like abortion and gay marriage.
There would be no serious debate if Pope Francis had said: don’t ostracize people for their sins. I also think he would not have found much contradiction if he had said preach less about homosexuality and abortion.

However, he has alleged or implied facts which others are disputing, namely that Catholics have obsessed over these issues to the exclusion of other equally or more important issues.

If, as some say, secuarlists know where the Church stands on homosexuality and abortion that is ten times true about the ressurection of Christ, danger of hell, and promise of heaven.

Are we to stop “obsessing” about those as well in order to make atheists more comfortable with us?
 
There would be no serious debate if Pope Francis had said: don’t ostracize people for their sins. I also think he would not have found much contradiction if he had said preach less about homosexuality and abortion.

However, he has alleged or implied facts which others are disputing, namely that Catholics have obsessed over these issues to the exclusion of other equally or more important issues.

If, as some say, secuarlists know where the Church stands on homosexuality and abortion that is ten times true about the ressurection of Christ, danger of hell, and promise of heaven.

Are we to stop “obsessing” about those as well in order to make atheists more comfortable with us?
He is a shepherd trying to go after the lost sheep. Is this the quote that you are referring to? :
“The church sometimes has locked itself up in small things, in small-minded rules. The most important thing is the first proclamation: Jesus Christ has saved you. And the ministers of the church must be ministers of mercy above all. The confessor, for example, is always in danger of being either too much of a rigorist or too lax. Neither is merciful, because neither of them really takes responsibility for the person. The rigorist washes his hands so that he leaves it to the commandment. The loose minister washes his hands by simply saying, ‘This is not a sin’ or something like that. In pastoral ministry we must accompany people, and we must heal their wounds.
“How are we treating the people of God? I dream of a church that is a mother and shepherdess. The church’s ministers must be merciful, take responsibility for the people and accompany them like the good Samaritan, who washes, cleans and raises up his neighbor. This is pure Gospel. God is greater than sin."
 
The media is making it tough on some of us every time the Pope speaks. I had to step in at work as two of my non-Catholic friends started saying “the Pope said abortion is okay” and explain that he said no such thing. Unfortunately, a lot of people are like my co-workers - “I only read the headlines.”

I agree with the Pope’s sentiments. As many have pointed out, and I explained to my co-workers, he is only doing what Jesus did - speaking the truth about sin while showing love and care for sinners.

The challenge is in the way he the Pope is explaining it and how it is being received. Politically, we don’t need the already wishy-washy, pro-choice voting Catholics to feel like they just got a green light to be in favor of the right to choose to abort a child, be in favor of gay “marriage” or civil unions, be in favor of euthanasia, etc… The Pope didn’t give a green light, but that is the way they are perceiving it.
 
He is a shepherd trying to go after the lost sheep. Is this the quote that you are referring to?
No. The quote I am referring to is this:

“We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods…I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that.”

And, as well, I am referring to all those who have interpreted Pope Francis’ as accusing Catholics with being obsessed with these issues.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top