Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

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saveusfromhell said:
that’s pretty uncharitable. maybe you could start with your own attitude. you seem to have judged the reason the bishop moved the priest
also you seem to have issue with the priest doing what the pope has asked preach on the evils of accumulating money instead of giving to the poor.
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Wow, I did not judge the bishop. It was common knowledge as the many people left that Church and they were starting to get into a financial bind.

Is millions of dollars not enough to give, especially when they are not done giving. I know of several “wealthy” family that have given over 2, 3, 4 million dollars. I guess they will have to give it all away to please some people.
 
steve_b said:
For me, the following statement from the pope got to the heart of the matter. (emphasis mine)

“I say this also thinking about the preaching and content of our preaching. A beautiful homily, a genuine sermon must begin with the first proclamation, with the proclamation of salvation. There is nothing more solid, deep and sure than this proclamation. Then you have to do catechesis. Then you can draw even a moral consequence. But the proclamation of the saving love of God comes before moral and religious imperatives. Today sometimes it seems that the opposite order is prevailing."

He is merely recommending the order in which the message is given in the most effective way. He is not discounting or changing any moral imperitives.
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I think its more common today to hear all about love and ZERO on morals. Isn’t LOVE also suppossed to be about doing the will of God and obeying his commandments?

What is the point of telling people “God loves you” when their impression of love is that God should allow them to do everything they want as long as it does not “hurt” someone?
 
einna said:
Wow, I did not judge the bishop. It was common knowledge as the many people left that Church and they were starting to get into a financial bind.

Is millions of dollars not enough to give, especially when they are not done giving. I know of several “wealthy” family that have given over 2, 3, 4 million dollars. I guess they will have to give it all away to please some people.
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again you know the state of thinking of the bishop based on gossip. maybe the bishop disliked what he was preaching in terms of unmarried mothers. but I bow to your superior knowledge of the bishops soul at the time.
I know nothing of the people and how much they gave or didn’t give and their souls again I bow to your knoweldge
 
einna said:
Wow, I did not judge the bishop. It was common knowledge as the many people left that Church and they were starting to get into a financial bind.

Is millions of dollars not enough to give, especially when they are not done giving. I know of several “wealthy” family that have given over 2, 3, 4 million dollars. I guess they will have to give it all away to please some people.
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Well if they did, its not like they will not gain much treasures in heaven 🙂
 
Fevronia said:
I think its more common today to hear all about love and ZERO on morals. Isn’t LOVE also suppossed to be about doing the will of God and obeying his commandments?

What is the point of telling people “God loves you” when their impression of love is that God should allow them to do everything they want as long as it does not “hurt” someone?
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Who is saying that? Certainly not the Pope.
 
AdvanceAlways said:
Check the internet today?
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Sweetie I have a life…work…family…Im going to be a Nonna in January…my daughter and her husband have moved in with us…so has my son …2 yrs out of college no job… while you are in sack cloth and ashes questioning the Pope’s intentions…people are moving on with their lives. I think the Pope understands quite well what is going on in lives of ordinary people. So some of you all may know doctrine, dogma, and canon backwards and forward… but you are clueless when it comes to the “spirit of the law” . This Pope gets it. By their fruits you shall know them. Francis’ actions speak of genuine love …
 
einna said:
Who is saying that? Certainly not the Pope.
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I thought you interpreted the Pope as saying “Love” is separate from “telling people of sins and scolding them if they had sinned”?

Weren’t you upset just moments before that someone gets scolded during confession?

(Note: I admit its bad to get scolded. But sometimes we have to take it as penance and a way to check our pride. It helps build humility)
 
Julianna said:
Sweetie I have a life…work…family…Im going to be a Nonna in January…my daughter and her husband have moved in with us…so has my son …2 yrs out of college no job… while you are in sack cloth and ashes questioning the Pope’s intentions…people are moving on with their lives. I think the Pope understands quite well what is going on in lives of ordinary people. So some of you all may know doctrine, dogma, and canon backwards and forward… but you are clueless when it comes to the “spirit of the law” . This Pope gets it. By their fruits you shall know them. Francis’ actions speak of genuine love …
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👍 Well said, and with that I’m going home. 🙂
 
saveusfromhell said:
again you know the state of thinking of the bishop based on gossip. maybe the bishop disliked what he was preaching in terms of unmarried mothers. but I bow to your superior knowledge of the bishops soul at the time.
I know nothing of the people and how much they gave or didn’t give and their souls again I bow to your knoweldge
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Very uncharitable you are. Proud of yourself?
 
Fevronia said:
I think its more common today to hear all about love and ZERO on morals. Isn’t LOVE also suppossed to be about doing the will of God and obeying his commandments?

What is the point of telling people “God loves you” when their impression of love is that God should allow them to do everything they want as long as it does not “hurt” someone?
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I agree. But the news agancies and controversialists would have the world believe that pope Francis is turning the Church upside down, or that he says things he really doesn’t say.
 
Julianna said:
Sweetie I have a life…work…family…Im going to be a Nonna in January…my daughter and her husband have moved in with us…so has my son …2 yrs out of college no job… while you are in sack cloth and ashes questioning the Pope’s intentions…people are moving on with their lives. I think the Pope understands quite well what is going on in lives of ordinary people. So some of you all may know doctrine, dogma, and canon backwards and forward… but you are clueless when it comes to the “spirit of the law” . This Pope gets it. By their fruits you shall know them. Francis’ actions speak of genuine love …
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Does genuine “Love” in your thinking exclude correction and reproach? Can you define the definition of “Love” you use so that it will help us discuss more about it?
 
Fevronia said:
I thought you interpreted the Pope as saying “Love” is separate from “telling people of sins and scolding them if they had sinned”?

Weren’t you upset just moments before that someone gets scolded during confession?

(Note: I admit its bad to get scolded. But sometimes we have to take it as penance and a way to check our pride. It helps build humility)
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Sorry got confused on your other post because said “if they did, they would not get treasures in heaven”.

I was more afraid.
 
saveusfromhell said:
that’s pretty uncharitable. maybe you could start with your own attitude. you seem to have judged the reason the bishop moved the priest
also you seem to have issue with the priest doing what the pope has asked preach on the evils of accumulating money instead of giving to the poor.
I said 10 years not 20
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His point still stands, however you feel about him being charitable or not
 
steve_b said:
I agree. But the news agancies and controversialists would have the world believe that pope Francis is turning the Church upside down, or that he says things he really doesn’t say.
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Well, to be fair to both sides, isn’t that what gets communicated? There are some parts of the interview where the Pope does seem to be clearly departing from the way the Church used to be in the past with respect to the pastoral approach.

To me, the problem with a liberal pastoral approach is that one cannot say if the person is holding orthodox doctrine or liberal doctrine. So to the media, the Pope appears exactly as they describe him. What basis can we have to blame if they then infer that changes are coming?

Also, in a time where the issue is not that people are unaware of “God loves you” but are more critical of his existence and his requirement of a moral law, what does this pastoral strategy accomplish?
 
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