Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

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anthonymarie said:
I agree that it was no olive branch, I disagree that there is no conflict between those quotes - or at least, I disagree that I can see there is no conflict. I think the Holy Father is theologically sound, I can see no evidence to the contrary. However, as I stated in an earler post, I am confused by the comment that the church is obsessed with abortion. Can you explain it to me?
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People need to learn to not to see what the Pope says through the prism of their political ideology.
 
Mark121359 said:
It has become crystal clear to me that this media knows exactly what it’s doing! Just have a look at this thread and all the other threads involving this Pope and the media. What are we up to, about a 1000 posts with this thread? Today’s media are experts at this. They pick and choose certain quotes, then combine them all together to form what they want to convey…***their agenda! *** And I’ll tell you something…they’re damn good at it! Just look at the damage on this thread alone! Half are starting to question their Catholic faith, while the other half are seeing the green light for homosexual activity. Others seem to think abortion is over-rated! Yep. They are doing a bang-up job causing dissension and confusion!..Somehow, I picture the father of lies nodding his approval at all that they’ve achieved. For he’s the king at causing dissension and confusion!

Peace, Mark
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That’s why we need official bona fide reports from the Vatican or others in line with what they teach, the media is having a field day with the statements and so-called statements of Pope Francis, never forget Matthew and the Parable of the sower, it has raised it’s ugly head again, and if you think you can’t be deceived then you will. Jesus prayed for Peter that satan would not sift him like wheat, we need the prayers of Jesus as-well…
 
anthonymarie said:
I went home and read the interview and at first I felt so much anger …

… I will continual to have reservations about the intention of this particular statement .
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I think that we all were psychologically manipulated before reading the interview by how the headlines framed the situation. If we had simply read it without all of the media hoopla, we might not have even noticed anything much out of the ordinary…after all, Pope Benedict has said much the same thing on a number of occasions.

At worst, some of us might have been mildly irritated or somewhat confused.

Talk about the media controlling the masses!

Quite frankly, I think it was an example of diabolical activity. And I’m not a “fundamentalist” or someone who ever says things like that, either. The “author of confusion” had his day. Now it’s time for him to “go to hell”, where he belongs.

:harp: “The powers of darkness fear, when this glad song they hear: May Jesus Christ be praised!”
 
opus101 said:
If we had simply read it without all of the media hoopla, we might not have even noticed anything much out of the ordinary…after all, Pope Benedict has said much the same thing on a number of occasions.

At worst, some of us might have been mildly irritated or somewhat confused.

Talk about the media controlling the masses!
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👍
 
opus101 said:
Read the interview. He never said the Church was obsessed with abortion!
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Hmm. I had read it but upon re-reading it now I can see that it’s not actually phrased as I had thought. I guess the first time I read it I still had the words of some liberal colleauges of mine ringing in my ears: “the pope says the church is obsessed with gays and abortion! HA HA”. I won’t pretend that I wasn’t full of anger when I read it the first time.

Thank you for pointing this out. I think the best thing to do is leave the whole issue alone for 24 hours and then re-read it when I’m feeling much calmer.
 
Country_Gal said:
In other words, the Homily is the part of the liturgy and is a commentary of the scripture readings. It’s not akin to a Protestant sermon, where the minister can choose any subject and cite scriptures of his choosing to support his ideas.
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Yes, but implied here is that the Church’s moral teaching is not connected in any way to the texts of the Mass, ever.

It is not only a commentary on the readings in the sense that it is a study of the “literature” of the Bible or something. It is pretty easy to take any of hundreds of Gospel readings and make a connection to this or that moral teaching.
 
I just hope all these Papal messages don’t eventually produce a world population, both “left” and “right,” who just say, “Oh, that’s just Francis, whatever,” every time he says something. The leftists because they know they’re not going to get what they want, and those on the “right” because they are so demoralized that they don’t care anymore.
 
anthonymarie said:
I won’t pretend that I wasn’t full of anger when I read it the first time.

Thank you for pointing this out. I think the best thing to do is leave the whole issue alone for 24 hours and then re-read it when I’m feeling much calmer.
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I too was thrown for a loop the first time. Then I decided to try to read it again as objectively as possible, trying as much as I could to forget the headlines and “news”.
It was then clear to me that there was no basis for the media to be making the claims that they were.
The headlines had caused me to “read into” the Pope’s words things that weren’t there.

We all wish he would “clarify” things, but, with the way things are always distorted,that would probably make things worse!
 
anthonymarie said:
I desperately want to give the Holy Father the benefit of the doubt (I genuinely believe he’s a good and holy man) but this comment seems to me to play right into the hands of those who have been accusing the church of being obsessed with sex and lumping abortion, contraception, gay lifestyle and chastity all into that topic: “sex”. I pray that it does not discourage young Catholics from getting involved in the pro-life movement.

I think it is natural to be angry. I work in a Catholic Institute and when I went into the staffroom on Friday I was met by some of my self-proclaimed “liberal” colleagues gloating over several of the popes comments from the interview but particularly this one. I went home and read the interview and at first I felt so much anger and, I’m ashamed to say, *hate *that I immediatly texted a priest friend and arranged confession. I’ve since calmed down a lot. At the end of the day I know it’s not right for me to put my opinion above the Holy Father’s. However, I will continual to have reservations about the intention of this particular statement and based on what I have read here today, and the conversations I have had since yesterday, I think the meaning of it is going to remain a mystery for some time.
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You’re not alone
 
Zekariya said:
Here is the relevant section from the link:

“We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time.

“The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently. Proclamation in a missionary style focuses on the essentials, on the necessary things: this is also what fascinates and attracts more, what makes the heart burn, as it did for the disciples at Emmaus. We have to find a new balance; otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel. The proposal of the Gospel must be more simple, profound, radiant. It is from this proposition that the moral consequences then flow."
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**
At last the actual words and not some trigger happy anti-catholic editor from the droves of gutter press, it’s makes sense to me now !**
 
There are reasons why the press was so “off” on this.

It’s interesting how the scales are falling from our eyes all of a sudden. (Prayers of Pope Francis?).

Blessed Pope John Paul II, in Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life) encouraged us to fast and pray about such things (much like Pope Francis has requested).

Evangelium Vitae, 100:

“Jesus himself has shown us by his own example that prayer and fasting are the first and most effective way against the forces of evil (cf.Mt 4:1-11). As he taught his disciples, some demons cannot be driven out except in this way (cf.Mk 9:29). Let us therefore discover anew the humility and the courage to pray and fast so that the power from on high will break down the walls of lies and deceit: the walls which conceal from the sight of so many brothers and sisters the evil practices and laws which are hostile to life.”
 
Post #958:
Mark121359 said:
It has become crystal clear to me that this media knows exactly what it’s doing! Just have a look at this thread and all the other threads involving this Pope and the media. What are we up to, about a 1000 posts with this thread? Today’s media are experts at this. They pick and choose certain quotes, then combine them all together to form what they want to convey…***their agenda! *** And I’ll tell you something…they’re damn good at it! Just look at the damage on this thread alone! Half are starting to question their Catholic faith, while the other half are seeing the green light for homosexual activity. Others seem to think abortion is over-rated! Yep. They are doing a bang-up job causing dissension and confusion!..Somehow, I picture the father of lies nodding his approval at all that they’ve achieved. For he’s the king at causing dissension and confusion!

Peace, Mark
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👍
 
livingwordunity said:
Post #958:
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One of the interpretive articles claims that Pope Francis’ interview stated that abortion no longer means latae sententiae excommunication. Is there anything in there that would lead to that conclusion. I have read the interview through and haven’t found it.
 
Corki said:
One of the interpretive articles claims that Pope Francis’ interview stated that abortion no longer means latae sententiae excommunication. Is there anything in there that would lead to that conclusion. I have read the interview through and haven’t found it.
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Based on his interview I think he would question why you are focusing on what exactly the Church’s punishments for abortion are. Why does it matter to you if someone is excommunicated for getting an abortion? This is what he was talking about when he said there was too much focus on small-minded rules. It is why many people don’t want to be a part of the Church.
 
JoeCarpenter said:
Based on his interview I think he would question why you are focusing on what exactly the Church’s punishments for abortion are. Why does it matter to you if someone is excommunicated for getting an abortion? This is what he was talking about when he said there was too much focus on small-minded rules. It is why many people don’t want to be a part of the Church.
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It’s part of canon law. I don’t think you should be referring to the law of the Church as “small-minded rules”. Nor do I think you should question why a practicing Catholic would want to know about a change to Canon law. :mad:
 
Corki said:
One of the interpretive articles claims that Pope Francis’ interview stated that abortion no longer means latae sententiae excommunication. Is there anything in there that would lead to that conclusion. I have read the interview through and haven’t found it.
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There is no change to doctrine. He simply addresses the alienation some can feel by the actions of some Catholics. There is no change to doctrine in that.
 
The Church focuses on the issues that the secular media focuses on (and vice versa) and the secular society riddled by secular relativism has seemingly succumbed.

Politicians and the media use these wedge issues to divide and conquer the Catholic vote and render the Catholic Church in America politically irrelevant.

Both sides of the Church, (right/left, liberal/conservative, social justice left/social justice right) – dig in and fight. Then we both come across as judgemental, self righteous and sanctimonious. We get an assist for being played by the the politicians, the media and the militant secular relativists.

I think the Pope is saying “don’t play”… “don’t get played” …

Show love and mercy while maintaining your credentials.

I would recommend everyone to study the Marian apparitions. Particularly Fatima and Our Lady of America. Saint Faustina too. I can’t see how these can’t convince anyone to repent and be saved. How they can’t convince anyone of the validity of the Catholic Church.

Jesus (via Saint Faustina) begins the Chaplet of Divine Mercy with OUR Creed.
Jesus… Our Creed… That’s powerful stuff.
 
Corki said:
It’s part of canon law. I don’t think you should be referring to the law of the Church as “small-minded rules”. Nor do I think you should question why a practicing Catholic would want to know about a change to Canon law. :mad:
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If an obscure law to single out women who have abortions is not what Pope Francis meant by “The church sometimes has locked itself up in small things, in small-minded rules.” then I do not know what is.

I’m not trying to make you angry, I just hoped that Pope Francis’ words would have more impact than they seem to have had. I think a lot of you are blaming the media for distorting what he said, when the full text is easily available and really quite clear.
 
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