Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

[dixieagle]

It astonishes me to see the gross misinterpretation of the Pope’s words by people from both the “left” and “right.”

I think that Cardinal Dolan put things in perspective very well:

“What he’s saying is that we have to think of a more effective way to do it, because if the church comes off as a scold, it’s counterproductive,” he said. “If the church comes off as a loving, embracing mother, who periodically has to correct her children, then we will be effective.” tinyurl.com/of4lzw6

(Disregard the typical NY Times headline and just read what the Cardinal says in the story.)

This seems to boil down to what my mother used to say: “You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.”

 

[kozlosap]

It astonishes me to see the gross misinterpretation of the Pope’s words by people from both the “left” and “right.”

I think that Cardinal Dolan put things in perspective very well:

“What he’s saying is that we have to think of a more effective way to do it, because if the church comes off as a scold, it’s counterproductive,” he said. “If the church comes off as a loving, embracing mother, who periodically has to correct her children, then we will be effective.” tinyurl.com/of4lzw6

(Disregard the typical NY Times headline and just read what the Cardinal says in the story.)

This seems to boil down to what my mother used to say: “You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.”

 

[sisblessed]

Attached is the actual Jesuit publication with the 6 hour interview with Pope Francis. This article comes directly from Rome Reports. americamagazine.org/pope-interview

“We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time."

I am genuinely concerned about Pope Francis. I thought there were (3) Non-negotiables to express with Clarity and Clear Articulation by Church Leadership and Authority with Emphasis:

(1) Life
(2) Marriage
(3) Religious Liberty.

Do you think Pope Francis’ approach will help win souls of Returning Catholics, Converts, Protestants, non-Christians?

Most non-Catholic Christians I knew when I was once Protestant love to hear Scripture based Biblical knowledge. The local Catholic radio station I listen to in Dallas, Texas AM910 gets it. They were winning souls all day with quoting Scripture and showing how the Catholic Church is the one true Church found by Christ Himself.

All those Catholics lost in Brazil South America and the millions lost in the U.S. They miss the Sacraments. The Catholic Faith is the best!

Still I am greatly disturbed because it took me years to come back home to the Church only to be faced with this problem in Rome.

I personally believe the Pope needs to quote Sacred Scripture and the Catechism of the Catholic Church and Evangelize as a priority.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Either way, even if that’s not what Francis meant, the secular media has made it about politics. So it is, therefore, about politics.

With respect, no it’s not.

That’s how we got in this mess in the first place, “The media sayeth” that a particular teaching or action in the Church is ‘political’ such as abortion and ‘gays’, and then everybody starts arguing as though it were ONLY political. That’s a very sneaky tactic on the part of the media --to attempt to divorce a moral issue from discussion by making it ‘only’ political. Because POLITICS one can agree or disagree with; a moral absolute is NOT something one can disagree with.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

There’s still no Biblical basis for voting pro-life.

If anything, the threat of losing tax-exempt status has silenced and will silence American Catholic parishes.

What? Excuse me, that’s a fairly strange statement. Last I knew, the 10 commandments (Bible) said thou shalt not kill. Can you tell me that abortion does NOT KILL a child? How do you claim that we should NOT be voting to support life?

 

[gracepoole]

I am genuinely concerned about Pope Francis. I thought there were (3) Non-negotiables to express with Clarity and Clear Articulation by Church Leadership and Authority with Emphasis:

(1) Life
(2) Marriage
(3) Religious Liberty.

These “non-negotiables” were identified by Deal Hudson (not the Pope) and, to a much lesser extent, the USCCB. Is it any wonder, then, that Pope Francis isn’t using the same language?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

With all due respect, I think the flaw is in your interpretation of what I have posted.

(emphasis mine)

Nowhere in my post is that argument made, so your response is based on a misinterpretation. I even gave the example of the horse and cart working together, so I’m not sure where you’re seeing me say they’re independent. There is a distinction between the two, that’s all - there must be a balance of emphasis on either one, and an order of priority in placing that emphasis.

Who is asking for a society without rules? Not the Pope, not any poster here that I’ve read. All I’m saying is that rules minus living the Gospel = legalism.

If we love God we will keep His commandments, but yes, we do need teaching in those commandments. As for the ‘cosmic teddy bear’ comment…all I can say is that God is love. Man’s concept of what constitutes love, is the problem. I have never seen true love that is devoid of discipline, for example, so I think you’re preaching to the choir here as far as correcting me.

Again, I’m not sure what in my post elicited this response.

Of course Pope Francis is different, as was Pope Benedict, as were their predecessors. That does not make God’s message different. However, we are being called back to give proper emphasis to the Gospel of Christ as opposed to the creeping legalism in some quarters of the Body of Christ. It is not the rules that are the problem - it is the trend of seeking to make them*** the prime focus ***of how we interact with each other and with those outside the Church that is the problem.

Christ did not start, but rather tended to end, His interactions with people by saying “Go and sin no more”. We also need to learn to not make that the initial or primary means by which we seek to introduce or to call back people to Him.

Yes, I think we’re actually pretty much on the same page. It was getting a little late yesterday when I posted the above. I stand by what I said and actually again I think, reading what you have said, that we are pretty much saying the same thing but from a slightly different angle. I think there are some who do have ‘creeping legalism’, so I’m with you there, and it’s just that you are (like Francis, with whom I agree actually in the message in context) placing the emphasis on ‘focusing on calling back’ (with rules to follow), and I’m just reiterating that the rules are needed. YOU for example made it quite clear that it’s not the rules themselves that are a problem, but some others do have a ‘creeping laissez-faire’ notion that the rules are, if enforced, supposed to be bent or adapted. Again, you didn’t say that, but others throughout the topic (not just on this thread) are indeed trying to argue that ‘rules are the problem’.

 

[sisblessed]

These “non-negotiables” were identified by Deal Hudson (not the Pope) and, to a much lesser extent, the USCCB. Is it any wonder, then, that Pope Francis isn’t using the same language?

Please read the Jesuit publication and be honest with your interpretation. Focus on answering the question in the original post. americamagazine.org/pope-interview

“We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time."

Do you think Pope Francis’ approach will help win souls of Returning Catholics, Converts, Protestants, non-Christians?

 

[dixieagle]

Attached is the actual Jesuit publication with the 6 hour interview with Pope Francis. This article comes directly from Rome Reports. americamagazine.org/pope-interview

“We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time."

I am genuinely concerned about Pope Francis. I thought there were (3) Non-negotiables to express with Clarity and Clear Articulation by Church Leadership and Authority with Emphasis:

(1) Life
(2) Marriage
(3) Religious Liberty.

Do you think Pope Francis’ approach will help win souls of Returning Catholics, Converts, Protestants, non-Christians?

Most non-Catholic Christians I knew when I was once Protestant love to hear Scripture based Biblical knowledge. The local Catholic radio station I listen to in Dallas, Texas AM910 gets it. They were winning souls all day with quoting Scripture and showing how the Catholic Church is the one true Church found by Christ Himself.

All those Catholics lost in Brazil South America and the millions lost in the U.S. They miss the Sacraments. The Catholic Faith is the best!

Still I am greatly disturbed because it took me years to come back home to the Church only to be faced with this problem in Rome.

I personally believe the Pope needs to quote Sacred Scripture and the Catechism of the Catholic Church and Evangelize as a priority.

You haven’t been paying attention to what Pope Francis has actually been doing, evidently. He has done nothing BUT evangelize!!!

For an excellent explanation of the Catholic view of Scripture, here is a link to his address to the Pontifical Bible Commission: vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/speeches/2013/april/documents/papa-francesco_20130412_commissione-biblica_en.html

He also referred to the Catechism in his most recent interview, harking back to the initial interview on the plane back from Rio, in which he said, referring to persons of homozexual orientation, “The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says one must not marginalize these persons, they must be integrated into society."

We must not make the mistake of expecting the Pope to act like a fundamentalist Protestant.

 

[dixieagle]

Please read the Jesuit publication and be honest with your interpretation. Focus on answering the question in the original post. americamagazine.org/pope-interview

“We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time."

Do you think Pope Francis’ approach will help win souls of Returning Catholics, Converts, Protestants, non-Christians?

In actuality, there’s no one on earth who can “reprimand” the Pope.

And, yes, I do, indeed believe that his approach will help win souls.

 

[sisblessed]

You haven’t been paying attention to what Pope Francis has actually been doing, evidently. He has done nothing BUT evangelize!!!

For an excellent explanation of the Catholic view of Scripture, here is a link to his address to the Pontifical Bible Commission: vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/speeches/2013/april/documents/papa-francesco_20130412_commissione-biblica_en.html

He also referred to the Catechism in his most recent interview, harking back to the initial interview on the plane back from Rio, in which he said, referring to persons of homozexual orientation, “The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says one must not marginalize these persons, they must be integrated into society."

We must not make the mistake of expecting the Pope to act like a fundamentalist Protestant.

Do you think Pope Francis’ approach will help win souls of Returning Catholics, Converts, Protestants, non-Christians?

 

[gracepoole]

Please read the Jesuit publication and be honest with your interpretation. Focus on answering the question in the original post. americamagazine.org/pope-interview

“We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time."

Do you think Pope Francis’ approach will help win souls of Returning Catholics, Converts, Protestants, non-Christians?

Please be honest and claim your own language. You brought up the “non-negotiables” and expressed “concern” regarding Pope Francis’ comments. If you only wanted a response to the final question above, that’s all you should have included in your post.

And please don’t assume those of us engaged here haven’t read the full interview in America – I did so the day it came out. To answer your question, yes.

 

[kozlosap]

Do you think Pope Francis’ approach will help win souls of Returning Catholics, Converts, Protestants, non-Christians?

Yes! If focusing on the Gospels brings in souls that need healing, then AMEN!

 

[sisblessed]

In actuality, there’s no one on earth who can “reprimand” the Pope.

And, yes, I do, indeed believe that his approach will help win souls.

You have no clue what kind of field day Protestants are having with this Pope’s own words.

 

[agnes_therese]

You have no clue what kind of field day Protestants are having with this Pope’s own words.

Really? You think no one but you pays attention?

Some of them have a field day no matter what the Pope says. Always have, always will.

IMO, we need to be a little less concerned about what non-Catholics think, and a little more concerned with what the Holy Spirit is telling us (both as a church, and as individuals) through Pope Francis. Philippians 2:12 comes to mind.

 

[sisblessed]

Please be honest and claim your own language. You brought up the “non-negotiables” and expressed “concern” regarding Pope Francis’ comments. If you only wanted a response to the final question above, that’s all you should have included in your post.

And please don’t assume those of us engaged here haven’t read the full interview in America – I did so the day it came out. To answer your question, yes.

You assume I assumed. wow!

Only time will tell if his approach is working to bring Christians home to the one true Church. Those Faithful Christians who firmly believe in both mercy and what is traditionally taught by the Church with clarity. By the way why so much confusion and controversy over this Pope by the Faithful fighting the abortion and marriage issues? Have you read their disappointed forum writings?

 

[gracepoole]

You assume I assumed. wow!

Only time will tell if his approach is working to bring Christians home to the one true Church. Those Faithful Christians who firmly believe in both mercy and what is traditionally taught by the Church with clarity. By the way why so much confusion and controversy over this Pope by the Faithful fighting the abortion and marriage issues? Have you read their disappointed forum writings?

Please see below from your post:

Please read the Jesuit publication and be honest with your interpretation.

No need to assume anything when you’ve asked folks to read the piece in *America *and assumed they haven’t already.

Why do faithful Catholics think they have a better and more comprehensive understanding of evangelization than the pope?

 

[_Abyssinia]

These “non-negotiables” were identified by Deal Hudson (not the Pope) and, to a much lesser extent, the USCCB. Is it any wonder, then, that Pope Francis isn’t using the same language?

I am not sure if Pope Francis has addressed the issue of Catholic non negotiables in regards to voting yet although he has spoken on politics.

Pope Benedict said to the European People’s Party in 2006

As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, the principal focus of her interventions in the public arena is the protection and promotion of the dignity of the person, and she is thereby consciously drawing particular attention to principles which are not negotiable

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/march/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060330_eu-parliamentarians_en.html

Sacramentum Caritatis

1. Here it is important to consider what the Synod Fathers described as eucharistic consistency, a quality which our lives are objectively called to embody. Worship pleasing to God can never be a purely private matter, without consequences for our relationships with others: it demands a public witness to our faith. Evidently, this is true for all the baptized, yet it is especially incumbent upon those who, by virtue of their social or political position, must make decisions regarding fundamental values, such as respect for human life, its defence from conception to natural death, the family built upon marriage between a man and a woman, the freedom to educate one’s children and the promotion of the common good in all its forms. These values are not negotiable. Consequently, Catholic politicians and legislators, conscious of their grave responsibility before society, must feel particularly bound, on the basis of a properly formed conscience, to introduce and support laws inspired by values grounded in human nature. There is an objective connection here with the Eucharist (cf. 1 Cor 11:27-29). Bishops are bound to reaffirm constantly these values as part of their responsibility to the flock entrusted to them.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20070222_sacramentum-caritatis_en.html

 

[_Abyssinia]

Pope Francis Has Not Diluted the Pro-Life Teachings of the Catholic Church

by Father Frank Pavone | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 9/23/13 1:57 PM

 

[InSearchofGrace]

The media and the catholic left (lower case c intentional) rejoice with what they take away from the Pope’s recent 12K word interview: abortion is not a big deal, homosexuality is okay, and the Church should shy away from the public square. This is spin taken from selective statements, not what is conveyed in his overall message.

We are being admonished that Catholics (upper case intentional) do not have to choose between doctrine and charity.

The doctrines on abortion and homosexuality remain. He spoke of the evil of abortion right after said interview, but this is being underplayed in mainstream media. Why is that, one should ponder.

Many over-read his answer to the question if he approved of homosexuality with a sidestepping reply, “Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ We must always consider the person. Here we enter into the mystery of the human being. In life, God accompanies persons, and we must accompany them, starting from their situation. It is necessary to accompany them with mercy. When that happens, the Holy Spirit inspires the priest to say the right thing.” Immediately following his reply was his mention of the availability of the sacrament of confession, which means homosexual acts have not ceased to be sinful, requiring repentance and correction. Recall that in his days as cardinal, before he was elected Pope, he condemned gay ‘marriage’ and adoption of children by gay couples. He said that those who take this path are walking in darkness, following the father of lies.

The US bishops and the Pope may differ in communication style, but there is no discord as to understanding and upholding of the doctrines on these hot topics on the forefront of the culture, contrary to what is implied in some posts herein.

The wounded (parties to abortion and homosexual life, promoters of abortion and gay ‘marriage’ laws) need love from us and the healing of reconciliation. These acts are offensive to God as they have always been.
,