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Pope civil unions comment appears to be an edited mashup, and not in original transcript from 2019
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goout
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Clarification. Is that one of the theological virtues? It’s good to know truth. It’s even better to know Christ who is the truth.goout:
The pope has said some controversial things that need clarification. The world would not be having this discussion if it were not so.
And in your eyes, is it good or bad that the world is having this discussion?
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JimR-OCDS
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The mainstream media got it wrong once again.
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StudentMI
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But wait, that link says the Pope’s comments don’t constitute formal teaching and a Catholic can disagree. I thought from all the supportive comments here that disagreeing means you see yourself as a self appointed authority and a bad Catholic?
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upant
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Christ always condemned the sin and said sin no more, why do we forget this
It is bad when the discussion is used by some, even if it is the laity or non-believer, as church acceptance of immoral behavior
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Magnanimity
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I’m curious, where did you get this translation? Even in English, it’s syntactically awkward.
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Magnanimity
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Darn. I’m off of FB at the moment. Ok, I assumed the translation wasn’t yours with the addition of the quotes. Thanks!
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ReaderT
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Because it’s not entirely accurate. “hacer” can mean “to do” (and you get that awkward English phrase when you translate it that way), but it also means “to make”, and that makes more sense/is more natural.
Word for word:
Lo que = What
tenemos que = we need
hacer = to make
es = is
una ley = a law
de = of
convivencia civil = civil union.
And for anyone who doubts that he meant “civil union”, the next sentence can only make sense if he’s talking about civil unions:
“They have the right to be covered legally,” said Pope Francis. “I defended that.”
Tienen derecho a estar cubiertos legalmente”, dijo el Papa Francisco. “Yo defendà eso”.
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Magnanimity
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Yes, I provided my own translation in a post above. The phrases before and after do provide the necessary context. And, I’ve been visiting Argentina websites this morning describing the requirements for “justicia cerca vivimos juntos.” It’s plain enough when one reads an entry on the requirements (requisitos) “para ser una unión convivencial.” One of them plainly says “de igual or distinto sexo.” Convivencia, for Argentinos, does mean living together.
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pnewton
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The internet.
And St. John Paul did have this problem to a lesser degree, increasing as the use of internet discussion grew.
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goout
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You speak as if the Pope is pro-sin.goout:
Christ always condemned the sin and said sin no more, why do we forget this
It is bad when the discussion is used by some, even if it is the laity or non-believer, as church acceptance of immoral behavior
Did you see the actual words he spoke, or are you depending on secular spin for your point of view?
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MarkRome
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I can see how you may think that but I don’t think it only makes sense in the context of civil unions. There should be legal protections from discrimination. I think that’s what Pope Francis was saying.
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Fauken
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Then how do you explain convivencia civil? I don’t speak Spanish fluently, but I do know some, and aside from little tweaks I’d have made in my translation, I think the transitions I’ve seen here so far are accurate, and I don’t see how else you can read convivencia civil, especially if that’s how Argentineans use it. Do you speak Spanish?
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pnewton
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I expect the world to behave in a sinful manner, but Christians are called to charity. We are taught.
I think it fair for everyone to ask themselves if they have followed this teaching.
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MarkRome
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I don’t speak Spanish but unión convivencial is not the same as convivencia civil.
Pope Francis has spoken of civil coexistence before, namely in 2017, and it had nothing to do with civil unions of same-sex partners. He also mentioned coexistence five times in his encyclical Fratelli tutti. He’s talking about people coexisting in peace and in the context of homosexuals, we should be seeking that. Don’t alienate them.
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MarkRome
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Neither do I but it isn’t the same as unión convivencial.
Yes, Christ went to meet sinners where they were, however He told them to “go and sin no more” He did not say “hey I’m gonna change the rules to make it OK for you guys to keep on sinning”.
Yes I think most have, but we can also use our good judgment to determine what one means and one doesn’t mean and when one continues to make scandalous statements over and over again we must eventually take him at his word instead of making excuses.
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Fauken
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I’m starting to get confused on what was said in general. Where are people finding transcripts of what was said in the interview?
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pnewton
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Pope Francis actually taught (not in a movie) in Amoris Laetitia:
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