Pope criticizes the ‘cruelty’ of capitalism

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As I mentioned, some people have never learned to eat right on a tight budget. That being said, I have personally found it more expensive to eat fresh fruit and vegetables than junk but unlike the poorest I have the luxury of choice. Not everyone can afford to buy in bulk even though it is cheaper, since it requires a greater initial investment. The problem of obesity among the poor definitely lies not necessarily with overeating but with eating the wrong things.
 
seekerz said:
As I mentioned, some people have never learned to eat right on a tight budget. That being said, I have personally found it more expensive to eat fresh fruit and vegetables than junk but unlike the poorest I have the luxury of choice. Not everyone can afford to buy in bulk even though it is cheaper, since it requires a greater initial investment. The problem of obesity among the poor definitely lies not necessarily with overeating but with eating the wrong things.
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By buying in bulk, I mean buying loose beans, rice etc rather than prepackaged. Bulk is just a week’s worth. A pound of brown rice costs about the same as a package of twinkies. I don’t believe the poor are so stupid they don’t know the difference.

For most of history, the poor couldn’t afford junk food. Now, thanks to capitalism, they can buy so much they are overweight.
 
GreenJeans said:
I once heard an advocate for the poor advance this argument. She said they had to eat potato chips because they couldn’t afford anything else. The other person pointed out that one can buy five pounds of real potatos for the same price as the bag of chips.

Eighty percent of my diet is fresh fruit and vegetables. The rest is rice, beans, and nuts which I buy in bulk since that’s how to get the best quality. Add two raw eggs per day, 128 ounces of water, and I’m set. I have lots of money, but determined this is the healthiest diet for me. And it is cheap. Far less expensive than eating processd food.
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Ahhh, this comes back to the evils of capitalism.
The easiest fast buck is won by targetting the weakest.
That means children, the ‘not so bright’, and the distracted.
I have seen native fast food stores in the far East, and they produce fast, healthy and cheap meals by the road-side, much as our Mexican friend.
It is clear that state intervention is required to prevent capitalism from predating upon the weak. (Howls of protest!), but this is just what controlled ecconomies do. Yet in free ecconomies also this can happen, but it requires a different mind-set.
I have fed well in the street-side ‘Macan Store’ set on beams laid across the monsoon ditch, with rats running about underneath, and geckos falling into my beer, and never suffering any ill, indeed getting a good and filling snack, without ever getting ‘gippy-tummy’.
Super Mac though is a different question. There I come out, after a huge plateful, feeling hungrier than I went in. The meals are there designed to look big, but are also designed to be non-filling. They, and those like them, make their money by being obesety factories, predating upon the weak, not-so-bright, and the distracted.
This is capitalism.
Praise the almighty dollar, (Mammon), and the weakest be damned.
 
We must remember that the road to equality is marked by asperity. Many have failed attempting to travel this road (for example, the communism in China and Russia). But that does not mean we should stop pursuing egalitarian agendas.

We should stop the exploitation of workers for surplus value. This denies them of their dignity and objectifies them.
 
GreenJeans said:
By buying in bulk, I mean buying loose beans, rice etc rather than prepackaged. Bulk is just a week’s worth. A pound of brown rice costs about the same as a package of twinkies. I don’t believe the poor are so stupid they don’t know the difference.

For most of history, the poor couldn’t afford junk food. Now, thanks to capitalism, they can buy so much they are overweight.
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I do basically the same thing you do Green Jeans, but where I live the grocery stores where poor people tend to turn for bargains is stacked with lots of CHEAP junk. I don’t think it’s stupidity that has people eating wrong - it’s just that bad habits die hard, especially if new, good ones do not replace them.

You don’t have to go very far to understand; have you ever seen the fare offered in the cafeterias of our public schools, the place other than home where we’re educated for life? Once a person’s tastes in food are set and the supply is cheap, what’s to keep him from getting stuck on the road to a hefty waistline?
 
Voco_proTatiano said:
Ahhh, this comes back to the evils of capitalism.
The easiest fast buck is won by targetting the weakest.
That means children, the ‘not so bright’, and the distracted.
I have seen native fast food stores in the far East, and they produce fast, healthy and cheap meals by the road-side, much as our Mexican friend.
It is clear that state intervention is required to prevent capitalism from predating upon the weak. (Howls of protest!), but this is just what controlled ecconomies do. Yet in free ecconomies also this can happen, but it requires a different mind-set.
I have fed well in the street-side ‘Macan Store’ set on beams laid across the monsoon ditch, with rats running about underneath, and geckos falling into my beer, and never suffering any ill, indeed getting a good and filling snack, without ever getting ‘gippy-tummy’.
Super Mac though is a different question. There I come out, after a huge plateful, feeling hungrier than I went in. The meals are there designed to look big, but are also designed to be non-filling. They, and those like them, make their money by being obesety factories, predating upon the weak, not-so-bright, and the distracted.
This is capitalism.
Praise the almighty dollar, (Mammon), and the weakest be damned.
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The weak aren’t targeted; the same food is on the shelves regardless of who is walking down the aisle. The strong and weak both walk past the same selections. The stupid buy the twinkies, while the smart buy the potatos. Don’t blame stupidity,laziness, and gluttony on capitalism. The same people would be stupid under socialism, too.

Maybe we should assign a state nanny to each of the stupid to keep them away from the bakery section. Or, better yet, maybe those folks with such concern could offer their services to the stupid at the door of the supermarket.
 
Perhaps folks should understand capitalism a little better.

Most of what is commonly accepted as economic fact is wrong – now here’s the unvarnished, politically incorrect truth
The Politically Incorrect Guide to Capitalism
by Robert P. Murphy

The liberal media and propagandists masquerading as educators have filled the world - and deformed public policy – with politically correct errors about capitalism and economics in general. And the new Democratic Congress will soon be pushing new socialist initiatives, under the guise of their being “good for the children.” But in The Politically Incorrect Guide to Capitalism, myth-busting professor Robert P. Murphy, a columnist and adjunct scholar and frequent speaker at the Ludwig von Mises Institute, cuts through all their nonsense, shattering liberal myths and fashionable socialist clichés to set the record straight.

conservativebookservice.com/products/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c7036
 
Al_Masetti said:
Perhaps folks should understand capitalism a little better.

Most of what is commonly accepted as economic fact is wrong – now here’s the unvarnished, politically incorrect truth
The Politically Incorrect Guide to Capitalism
by Robert P. Murphy

The liberal media and propagandists masquerading as educators have filled the world - and deformed public policy – with politically correct errors about capitalism and economics in general. And the new Democratic Congress will soon be pushing new socialist initiatives, under the guise of their being “good for the children.” But in The Politically Incorrect Guide to Capitalism, myth-busting professor Robert P. Murphy, a columnist and adjunct scholar and frequent speaker at the Ludwig von Mises Institute, cuts through all their nonsense, shattering liberal myths and fashionable socialist clichés to set the record straight.

conservativebookservice.com/products/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c7036
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But how does capitalism prevent the exploitation of workers for surplus value? This process of exploitation alienates them.
 
seekerz said:
I do basically the same thing you do Green Jeans, but where I live the grocery stores where poor people tend to turn for bargains is stacked with lots of CHEAP junk. I don’t think it’s stupidity that has people eating wrong - it’s just that bad habits die hard, especially if new, good ones do not replace them.

You don’t have to go very far to understand; have you ever seen the fare offered in the cafeterias of our public schools, the place other than home where we’re educated for life? Once a person’s tastes in food are set and the supply is cheap, what’s to keep him from getting stuck on the road to a hefty waistline?
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What’s to keep him from getting stuck? His common sense. If he is eating ****, then he should buy something else and eat it. It’s all available.

And school cafeterias? I make a pile of money and bring my own lunch each day. Here’s the secret.

Each evening…
  1. Put 1/2 cup of mixed rice, lentils, peanuts, et al in a pan.
  2. Put water in the pan.
  3. Boil it.
  4. Read the Wall street Journal for 1/2 hour.
  5. Take the boiling pan off the burner and turn off the heat.
  6. Put the mess in tupperware.
  7. Put the tupperware in the refrigerator.
  8. In the morning put the tupperware in a plastic bag.
  9. Put the plastic wrapped tupperware in your briefcase.
  10. Go to work.
  11. At lunch, put the tupperware in the mircowave for 2 minutes.
    12 Eat it with a plastic spoon.
Cost is about fifty cents per day.

Variations of this use sandwiches, apples, and a brown paper bag where a microwave is not available.

One inventive colleague puts a pop top can of tuna in his jacket pocket and opens it at lunch.

Our ancestors walked across continents and braved oceans. and we can’t beat a twinkie?

This ain’t rocket science.
 
ribozyme said:
But how does capitalism prevent the exploitation of workers for surplus value? This process of exploitation alienates them.
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Millions of people in countries all over the world tried Karl Marx’ ideas for many years and they failed miserably. His ideas are junk as has been demonstrated each time they have been tried. His idea of surplus value is also junk. Cuba and North Korea are the only shining ideals of Marxism left on the planet.
 
GreenJeans said:
Millions of people in countries all over the world tried Karl Marx’ ideas for many years and they failed miserably. His ideas are junk as has been demonstrated each time they have been tried. His idea of surplus value is also junk. Cuba and North Korea are the only shining ideals of Marxism left on the planet.
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Show me who workers aren’t exploited for surplus value in the United States.
 
ribozyme said:
Show me who workers aren’t exploited for surplus value in the United States.
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Marx’ economics are junk. His definitions of economic variables are junk. He is a miserable failure as has been proven over and over again. He failed. His followers failed. His ideas failed. His concepts failed. I won’t respond to junk concepts.

If you have a question about workers in the US that uses proven concepts, I’ll be glad to discuss it. But Marx belongs with the tinfoil hat folks.
 
GreenJeans said:
Marx’ economics are junk. His definitions of economic variables are junk. He is a miserable failure as has been proven over and over again. He failed. His followers failed. His ideas failed. His concepts failed. I won’t respond to junk concepts.

If you have a question about workers in the US that uses proven concepts, I’ll be glad to discuss it. But Marx belongs with the tinfoil hat folks.
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But how should we eliminate inequality if we cannot invoke Marxism?
 
ribozyme said:
But how should we eliminate inequality if we cannot invoke Marxism?
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First, we shouldn’t eliminate inequality. Second, Marxism doesn’t eliminate inequality; it has been demonstarted over and over again that it fails.
 
GreenJeans said:
First, we shouldn’t eliminate inequality. Second, Marxism doesn’t eliminate inequality; it has been demonstarted over and over again that it fails.
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Why shouldn’t we eliminate socioeconomic inequality?
 
I just returned from a late night trip to the grocer store. Since I was blathering on about comparitive food costs, I took a look at a few junk food prices since I dont buy the stuff.

Family sized bag of Tostidos (19 ounces) $4.49
Single package Hostess DingDongs $1.18

And in the same store…
Ten pounds of potatos $4.00
One pound apples $ .99
Bag of 12 oranges $4.00
One pound bag carrots $1.00
Can tuna 3.2 ounces $0.64
Loaf whole wheat bread $3.00
 
ribozyme said:
Why shouldn’t we eliminate socioeconomic inequality?
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People are not equal. There are smart people and there are stupid people. Strong and weak. Healthy and sick. Hard workers and lazy. Educated and uninterested. Gluttons and fit. We are inherently unequal and can never be made the same. That’s how we are made, and I am not aware of any reason to take positive steps to make us equal.

We could take all the money in the country and divide it up into 300 million equal shares and in a few weeks some people would be broke, and some would have multiplied their share several times.

Why should we take positive steps to make everyone equal?
 
GreenJeans said:
People are not equal. There are smart people and there are stupid people. Strong and weak. Healthy and sick. Hard workers and lazy. Educated and uninterested. Gluttons and fit. We are inherently unequal and can never be made the same. That’s how we are made, and I am not aware of any reason to take positive steps to make us equal.

We could take all the money in the country and divide it up into 300 million equal shares and in a few weeks some people would be broke, and some would have multiplied their share several times.

Why should we take positive steps to make everyone equal?
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But to me, a classless society would be a perpetual reminder that we have equal dignity. Besides, embryo selection may be able to rectify your first inequality: “There are smart people and there are stupid people.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lynn

Start reading at "Lynn argues embryo selection as a form of standard reproductive therapy… "
 
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