We should disrupt our whole economy to remind us we have equal dignity? How do you know we have equal dignity? How do you measure it to determine the equality? If it is equal for everyone, why do we need a reminder? What reason do we have to say we all have equal dignity? If everything else about a person is unique, why is dignity the same? Is dignity a function of action? It sounds like a bumper sticker rather than a well thought out idea. Who cares?But to me, a classless society would be a perpetual reminder that we have equal dignity. Besides, embryo selection may be able to rectify your first inequality: “There are smart people and there are stupid people.”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lynn
Start reading at "Lynn argues embryo selection as a form of standard reproductive therapy… "
So you do not believe in universal human dignity… I thought you were a Catholic.We should disrupt our whole economy to remind us we have equal dignity? How do you know we have equal dignity? How do you measure it to determine the equality? If it is equal for everyone, why do we need a reminder? What reason do we have to say we all have equal dignity? If everything else about a person is unique, why is dignity the same? Is dignity a function of action? It sounds like a bumper sticker rather than a well thought out idea. Who cares?
What is universal human dignity and how does it imply everyone has equal dignity?So you do not believe in universal human dignity… I thought you were a Catholic.
Guess you’re not a Catholic, but do you object the proposal of four generations of coercive embryo selection? I think that would form an egalitarian society as it will make differences in intelligence insignificant. Read the wikipedia entry on Richard Lynn for a vague idea about embryo selection.What is universal human dignity and how does it imply everyone has equal dignity?
Of course. Embryos should be selected just like breeding cattle. If we selected only the smartest and only the stupidest, we could have a society in which the smart people could devote their lives to the arts, science, and religion while the stupid did all the work to support them. Fertilized eggs from the smart could even be implanted in stupid women so the smart women wouldn’t be inconvenienced. If each stupid woman birthed four kids, two smart and two stupid, the population would stay in equilibriumGuess you’re not a Catholic, but do you object the proposal of four generations of coercive embryo selection? I think that would form an egalitarian society as it will make differences in intelligence insignificant. Read the wikipedia entry on Richard Lynn for a vague idea about embryo selection.
You have an evil agenda, why do you want to perserve the stupid? We should eliminate the genes for low intelligence. Why do you want a society of exploitation. Embryo selection is meant to liberate humanity from this form of slavery.Of course. Embryos should be selected just like breeding cattle. If we selected only the smartest and only the stupidest, we could have a society in which the smart people could devote their lives to the arts, science, and religion while the stupid did all the work to support them. Fertilized eggs from the smart could even be implanted in stupid women so the smart women wouldn’t be inconvenienced. If each stupid woman birthed four kids, two smart and two stupid, the population would stay in equilibrium
I want to preserve the stupid so there is someone around to do the scut work. I sure don’t want to do it myself, I doubt you do, and I’m sure the local MENSA chapter would much rather trash Kant than clean out septic tanks. As we became more skilled at embryo selection we would learn to identify those stupid embryos particularly well suited to septic tanks or street cleaning so they could be slotted into society on a rational schedule.You have an evil agenda, why do you want to perserve the stupid? We should eliminate the genes for low intelligence. Why do you want a society of exploitation. Embryo selection is meant to liberate humanity from this form of slavery.
Actually no. There are two types of profit, gross and net. And actually these can be defined a different ways as well. Criteria are conditions for something to be met. Gross and Net are not conditions for anything to be met at all.There are two criteria for profit, one is gross, the other is net. The context seemed to imply gross, and that is how I read it.
It has always been, and will always be the “haves” vs. the “have-nots”.VATICAN CITY - Benedict XVI criticizes the “cruelty” of capitalism and colonialism and the power of the wealthy over the poor in his first book as pope released on Friday.
Benedict began writing his personal meditation on Jesus Christ’s teachings, entitled “Jesus of Nazareth,” in 2003 when he was still Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. He stressed that the book is an expression of his “personal search for the face of the Lord” and is by no means official Catholic Church doctrine.
“Everyone is free, then, to contradict me,” he wrote.
msnbc.msn.com/id/18094760/
If you don’t care for the weak, then the love of God is not in you.The weak aren’t targeted; the same food is on the shelves regardless of who is walking down the aisle. The strong and weak both walk past the same selections. The stupid buy the twinkies, while the smart buy the potatos. Don’t blame stupidity,laziness, and gluttony on capitalism. The same people would be stupid under socialism, too.
Maybe we should assign a state nanny to each of the stupid to keep them away from the bakery section. Or, better yet, maybe those folks with such concern could offer their services to the stupid at the door of the supermarket.
I do hope that both you and ribozyme are engaging in savage satire. Because if you are being serious, then you are both advocating unspeakable wickedness. I will fight to the death to keep ideas such as yours from dominating the world. You would turn earth into hell if you had your way.I want to preserve the stupid so there is someone around to do the scut work. I sure don’t want to do it myself, I doubt you do, and I’m sure the local MENSA chapter would much rather trash Kant than clean out septic tanks. As we became more skilled at embryo selection we would learn to identify those stupid embryos particularly well suited to septic tanks or street cleaning so they could be slotted into society on a rational schedule.
We are equal because we are created in the image of God, and have equal value in God’s eyes.People are not equal. There are smart people and there are stupid people. Strong and weak. Healthy and sick. Hard workers and lazy. Educated and uninterested. Gluttons and fit. We are inherently unequal and can never be made the same. That’s how we are made, and I am not aware of any reason to take positive steps to make us equal.
We could take all the money in the country and divide it up into 300 million equal shares and in a few weeks some people would be broke, and some would have multiplied their share several times.
Why should we take positive steps to make everyone equal?
Note the weak and strong have the same selection of goods. This elimnates the notion that the weak are being targeted.If you don’t care for the weak, then the love of God is not in you.
Christianity is and always has been a religion of and for the weak. If you want a religion of the strong, go be a Zoroastrian or something.
That doesn’t address the question of capitalism vs. socialism. I don’t think anyone here is advocating socialism.
Edwin
Of course I’m serious. The stupid deserve the same chance on this earth as the smart. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.I do hope that both you and ribozyme are engaging in savage satire. Because if you are being serious, then you are both advocating unspeakable wickedness. I will fight to the death to keep ideas such as yours from dominating the world. You would turn earth into hell if you had your way.
Edwin
You’re joking of course! Why do you want to recapitulate slavery when this technology can be used to make everyone equal and form an egalitarian society where everyone is treated with dignity and respect.Of course I’m serious. The stupid deserve the same chance on this earth as the smart. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
Each of the stupid should be allowed to reach the pinnacle of his abilities. My system would foster this notion for the good of all humanity. It would be easy to get the stupid to believe what the smart tell them, and they would lead long and contented lives.
An embryo bank of the smart would ensure a continued supply of smart people who could tell the stupid what they want to hear. Both sides would be in equilibrium, disease a thing of the past, with prosperity and a loving sense of community for all.
Remember, we’re all in this together.
1.) With a highly intelligent population, people can be paid whatever is necessary to do the hundrum jobs that needed to be done. If too few people wanted to do cognitively undemanding work, they could be induced to do so if these jobs were sufficently remunerative. The law of supply and demand would still hold, just as it does now, such that a salary would naturally increase to the point at which someone was willing to take the job.
and2.) In the extremely unlikely event tht even high salaries failed to produce sufficent people to do certain unattractive jobs, there could br a requirement that citizens perform a certain amount of community work, analagous to the military conscription that many countries now have. This would not be unethical or an intolerable burden. The Western democracies require their citizens to serve in the military and risk their lives in times of war; so it is difficult to raise any objection to their being required to devote a few hours a week to doing such jobs such as cleaning the streets or collecting the garbage, which no one wants to do. (Lynn 2001: 96)
Now it is an unquestionable fact that those who are equally acquainted with, and equally capable of appreciating and enjoying, both, do give a most marked preference to the manner of existence which employs their higher faculties. Few human creatures would consent to be changed into any of the lower animals, for a promise of the fullest allowance of a beast’s pleasures; no intelligent human being would consent to be a fool, no instructed person would be an ignoramus, no person of feeling and conscience would be selfish and base, even though they should be persuaded that the fool, the dunce, or the rascal is better satisfied with his lot than they are with theirs. They would not resign what they possess more than he for the most complete satisfaction of all the desires which they have in common with him…
A being of higher faculties requires more to make him happy, is capable probably of more acute suffering, and certainly accessible to it at more points, than one of an inferior type; but in spite of these liabilities, he can never really wish to sink into what he feels to be a lower grade of existence. We may give what explanation we please of this unwillingness;… but its most appropriate appellation is a sense of dignity, which all human beings possess in one form or other, and in some, though by no means in exact, proportion to their higher faculties, and which is so essential a part of the happiness of those in whom it is strong, that nothing which conflicts with it could be, otherwise than momentarily, an object of desire to them.
utilitarianism.com/mill2.htmIt is better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied. And if the fool, or the pig, are a different opinion, it is because they only know their own side of the question. The other party to the comparison knows both sides.
This is an utterly fatuous denial.Note the weak and strong have the same selection of goods. This elimnates the notion that the weak are being targeted.
Well, let’s be honest. We’re a lot smarter than the stupid people and can contribute many things to society that the stupid can’t. But, in fairness, the stupid are better at things like septic tank pumping, cleaning out chicken coops, and anchoring the evening news. So, we each contribute according to our abilities. If everyone was smart, we would have a wasted resource as smart people struggled with the septic pumper hose rather than deconstructing Hume. Have you ever watched a septic pump hose fail?You’re joking of course! Why do you want to recapitulate slavery when this technology can be used to make everyone equal and form an egalitarian society where everyone is treated with dignity and respect.
we do not need an inferior caste because we can do such work:
From this thread: forum.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=142519&page=11
and
So do you want a society with Epsilon Minuses who have been manipulated to be content with their miserable condition (e.g. with soma)? Utility, not happiness is our goal.
utilitarianism.com/mill2.htm
This elegantly solves the problem of hundrum labor without recourse to an innately inferior caste.
There is an easy way to determine if we all have the same selection of food. First, put on a pair of hundred dollar sneakers, baggy pants, and Oakley sunglasses. This is the weak uniform. Then walk down the aisles of the supermarket and make a list of what is on the shelves.This is an utterly fatuous denial.
You set a bait to catch a fish.
The selection of the bait selects the fish attracted.
You trap a tiger by tethering a lamb.
An elephant has no interest in a lamb.
Everyone working to maximise profit goes for the easy target.
That is why capitalism is evil.
Actually, I do advocate socialism, not national socialism like you and your colocutor seem to be discussing.
I mean socialism pure, not communism.
I mean building a better society.
I mean basing the society on love, loving the weak, and the stupid as well as the strong and wise: loving your enemies as well as your friends.
This is the Socialism that Our Lord advocated.
Marx thought he could distill the ecconomic aspects from the spiritual aspects. He was wrong. That does not mean that the attempt should not have been made, for it is by errors that we find the way.
With the mind-set Our Lord was offering, Socialism will work. It worked well for over 500 years, from the mission, up to the fall of Arthur.
Socialism will not work without love.
With love, all things are possible.
Why do I get the feeling that Epsilon minus is my colocutor?There is an easy way to determine if we all have the same selection of food. First, put on a pair of hundred dollar sneakers, baggy pants, and Oakley sunglasses. This is the weak uniform. Then walk down the aisles of the supermarket and make a list of what is on the shelves.
Then, leave and duck into a phone booth. Change into cargo shorts, pastel golf shirt with upturned collar, beat-up duck shoes, and a Mickey Mouse watch by Piaget. This is the strong uniform. Reenter the store attracting the fawning glances of gold-digging acne-faced cashiers and make the same list.
Now, compare the two lists. Aside from spelling and penmanship they will be identical. Right reason triumphs again.
I had hoped mine was a fellow Alpha-Plus.Why do I get the feeling that Epsilon minus is my colocutor?