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twf
Guest
Ah yes I forgot those quotes. So the FFI would be an example of a “restorationist” order.You know what he means
Restorationist = traditional, conservative
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Tobias2
Guest
I think that by restorationist the Pope is referring to groups who are “traditional” to the exclusion of things like the OF. Groups who seem to want to return to a pre-V2 church. The Pope does not seem to cling to the EF and seems to see it as perhaps too rigid? Francis is carrying V2 forward on many levels and, to the extent some “restorationist” groups seem unable to embrace the development of the church that is ongoing, he seems to find that worrisome.
I think the vocation thing and so called traditional groups getting more vocations is a bit of hyperbole. These groups are mostly very small. If there are 20 nuns and 1 or 2 novices come in over a few years that is statistically more noticeable than an order of hundreds getting 4 or 5 vocations.
One issue I have with these groups is the money some of them spend on new monasteries and physical structures. Millions if I think of one group of men in the West that restrict everything to the EF. Building an opulent enclosure seems to me a waste of money that could be spent on the poor.
I recall an order of nuns in Utah not getting vocations and having to put their center there up for sale. A large property with buildings that some of these traditional orders could have purchased and ended up spending a lot less, but the focus of some of them appears too “physical” in the sense of the need for a beautiful new center when mercy would dictate more wisely using that money to help immigrants and the needy.
I think the vocation thing and so called traditional groups getting more vocations is a bit of hyperbole. These groups are mostly very small. If there are 20 nuns and 1 or 2 novices come in over a few years that is statistically more noticeable than an order of hundreds getting 4 or 5 vocations.
One issue I have with these groups is the money some of them spend on new monasteries and physical structures. Millions if I think of one group of men in the West that restrict everything to the EF. Building an opulent enclosure seems to me a waste of money that could be spent on the poor.
I recall an order of nuns in Utah not getting vocations and having to put their center there up for sale. A large property with buildings that some of these traditional orders could have purchased and ended up spending a lot less, but the focus of some of them appears too “physical” in the sense of the need for a beautiful new center when mercy would dictate more wisely using that money to help immigrants and the needy.
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JPUSC
Guest
****Yea ok… So why is he currently negotiating a reconciliation with SSPX, pray tell?
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
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TCEL
Guest
You mean these Carmelite monks building a monastery in Wyoming? The purveyors of Mystic Monk Coffee? I’m thrilled. Contemplative orders are like spiritual bunkers behind enemy lines. carmelitemonks.org/
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JPUSC
Guest
****Yea ok… So why is he currently negotiating a reconciliation with SSPX, pray tell?
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
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Issa87
Guest
I take it that no one here understands how the Church has veared away from its identity since Vatican 2. These changes are allowing heresy into the Church. First, most Catholics are not aware of the eucharist being Jesus due to the fact that in the 1960s they tore down the reredos and altar rails and allowed communion to be taken in the hand. Had reverence not have been taken out of the Church, and for what good reason? Then Catholics would know what the Church teaches on the eucharist. In fact, it was rebellious bishops and priests who started doing communion in the hand.
You know who else started doing communion in the hand? Martin Luther. Why? He himself said that he wanted to destroy the Mass.
And the Novus Ordo Mass was created by the assistance of Protestants. Why does the Church who has the fullness of truth need any help from the Protestants on how to worship?
Then we have people thinking that we share the same god as the Moslems due to vague wording in the Vatican 2 documents and later the Catechism. No, we cannot share the same god, because their god teaches very different teachings than ours. If our God is truth and their god is lies, then we cannot share the same god. There is so much confusion in the Church and most people are so blind to what is happening.
Just look at what Don Bosco predicted about a council in the next century. Our what Our Lady of Fatima said, and look up the untold third secret, because we were not told all of what the third secret was. And Our Lady of Good Success had very accurate predictions for our times.
Then look up how thousands of communists and Freemasons entered into the Church in the early 20th century. We have testimonials from those who helped this happen. And look at what the Freemasons said that they wanted, “A pope who will be theirs.”
You know who else started doing communion in the hand? Martin Luther. Why? He himself said that he wanted to destroy the Mass.
And the Novus Ordo Mass was created by the assistance of Protestants. Why does the Church who has the fullness of truth need any help from the Protestants on how to worship?
Then we have people thinking that we share the same god as the Moslems due to vague wording in the Vatican 2 documents and later the Catechism. No, we cannot share the same god, because their god teaches very different teachings than ours. If our God is truth and their god is lies, then we cannot share the same god. There is so much confusion in the Church and most people are so blind to what is happening.
Just look at what Don Bosco predicted about a council in the next century. Our what Our Lady of Fatima said, and look up the untold third secret, because we were not told all of what the third secret was. And Our Lady of Good Success had very accurate predictions for our times.
Then look up how thousands of communists and Freemasons entered into the Church in the early 20th century. We have testimonials from those who helped this happen. And look at what the Freemasons said that they wanted, “A pope who will be theirs.”
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Tobias2
Guest
I think many would disagree with you that the Church has veered from its identity. Indeed many feel the Church is fulfilling its identity and more fully discerning it since V2. Pope Francis will be a transformational Pope in this regard.
I ask if you believe/accept V1 and its teaching on the infallibility of the Pope and if Pope Francis formally defines this fuller understanding of conscious, remarried Catholics and the Eucharist will you accept it? If not then you have a Protestant understanding of what Scripture means when it says the Spirit will lead the Church to all truth.
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RCinMT
Guest
As an unaffiliated, who are you to say these things?
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I, for one, am still baffled at what “restorationist” orders and congregations he is talking about. Maybe I wouldn’t recognize the names if I heard them, but at least I could look them up maybe. Then perhaps I could figure out why he does not approve of them.
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Seamus_L
Guest
So we’re back to people trying to guess what they think the Pope means regarding restorationist orders.
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JimG
Guest
The Catholic Herald refers to them as “Pope Francis’ traditionalists.” It is rather ironic.
catholicherald.co.uk/issues/february-10th-2017/pope-franciss-traditionalists/
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dans0622
Guest
Hello,
The poor, immigrants and the needy…like construction workers, perhaps, who are in need of work?
Dan
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twf
Guest
If we’re not supposed to know what it means, why does he use the term? Why does he warn the Church about these orders?
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RPRPsych
Guest
I think the reference is probably to the Legionaries of Christ and the amoral Marciel Macial.
However, we are not privy to all the knowledge that the Pontiff has, including folks who may have been let off with a warning. Speculation is pointless, especially given the fact that the Church’s enemies love to pounce on such things to discredit the entire Church. Witness the scamsters of SNAP, for example.
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Trying2overcome
Guest
I, for one, am exceedingly glad that ‘restorationist’ orders are growing. May God grant them more and more vocations! 
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pnewton
Guest
I almost hate to comment on this, as the author did not source his material where the original can be read. The article, we need to remember, was not written by the Pope but is a product of Twenty-first Century journalism. Snippets and commentary are never as reliable as actually reading a full document, a transcript in this case.
I am also concerned that there is even a transcript of a closed door meeting. Yes, I think this is more gossip than news.
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JPUSC
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TMC
Guest
500 vocations in 30 years is not a significant number - less than two a year. There are over 400,000 priests, and over 700,000 religious sisters. In 30 years, the order has contributed less than .05 percent to that number.
The “restorationists” or “ultra-traditionalist” or whatever name one wants to apply are a very small, but very vocal, minority in the Church. The vast majority of the Church is moving forward with the Pope.
The “restorationists” or “ultra-traditionalist” or whatever name one wants to apply are a very small, but very vocal, minority in the Church. The vast majority of the Church is moving forward with the Pope.
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