Pope finally launches crackdown on world's largest illicit Catholic shrine [Medjugorje] and suspends 'dubious' priest

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deborahaz said:
if it was banned in 1985, why has it taken until 2008 for another statement to be published.

did they take action against the priest?

and those that had the visions? it sounds like they were living well.

the pilgrimmages by the faithful probably did help the economy of the area.

they definitely don’t want to encourage something like this.
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Excuse me, but I went to Medjugoria in 1988. Let me tell you what was going on. There were priests hearing confessions from sun up to past sundown…many priests. There were Rosaries being said all of the time. There were people of all ages and nationalities and health walking up a mountain barefoot in the snow saying the Stations of the Cross. People were physically uncomfortable, but we were there, praying and singing and praying and singing…and fasting and fasting and praying and singing and fasting.

We went to the home of one of the visionaries. She certainly was NOT living high and dry. These people live in simple homes…not nearly as luxurious as a middle class home in the USA. No central air or heat. No microwave oven. etc.

The people are simple people. They open their homes to pilgrims. Why are people getting angry because they are earning a living by helping Christ’s pilgrims?

There is an impramataur on apparitions and inner locutions in this day and age because there are so many that the vatican cannot research them all. Not only that, but they cannot do a real study on these apparitions until they have ceased to happen…to be able to know whether what has been given in messages did indeed come to pass. That is the way of the Catholic Church.
We shall know it by its fruits.
Medjugoria’s fruits are true conversions. Since the Blessed Mother began appearing in Medjugoria, people have turned back to Christ.
None of the messages given by the Blessed Mother to the apparitioners has been wrong in any way.
 
redrosetea said:
When the person that promotes medjugorje is immoral and a liar it certainly speaks volumes…This sort of activity was going on during the so called apparitions…fathering a child with a nun and trying to get her to lie about it are not fruits of the Holy Spirit…they are fruits of a demon spirit…and they had a nice income from it too…Bernadette never accepted anything for herself neither did Sr Lucy
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Judas was a follower of Christ. Does that mean that Christ is false simply because Judas also followed Him.
By your words above, this is indeed what you are saying.

And that would be a shame. For all of the other apostles and disciples also followed the exact same Christ…and they were true disciples.
That’s like saying that because some priests molested boys, the whole Catholic Church is a total false religion.

Use common sense.

And St. Bernadette’s family certainly were taken care of when she went to become a nun. She had been deeply concerned about their need of her help with income before being reassured by the Bishop that her family would be taken care of.
 
Lepanto said:
Back when JPII visited Yugoslavia in 1997, he did not stop to pray at Medjugorje. There may be many reasons why he didn’t stop there, but for him to skip a stopover is widely interpreted as his tacit disapproval or suspicions of the claimed apparitions.

It’s possible that the Vatican didn’t need to condemn Medjugorje – the local bishops already had done so.
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For him to have stopped over in Medjugoria would have been seriously against the Church’s rules. Because it is still going on, it cannot be authenticated by the Church because of Her inability to do the research on it. The Church must be completely scrupulous about these kinds of things to make sure that they never give credit to something like this until it has been investigated and researched above and beyond doubt to be authentic.

So Pope John Paul II could not have stopped there. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t believe or approve as a person. He just could approve or condemn as Pope at that time. He could not take the chance of leading the flock astray.

And that is totally normal under the circumstances.
 
Jesus_N_Cherie said:
Excuse me, but I went to Medjugoria in 1988. Let me tell you what was going on. There were priests hearing confessions from sun up to past sundown…many priests. There were Rosaries being said all of the time. There were people of all ages and nationalities and health walking up a mountain barefoot in the snow saying the Stations of the Cross. People were physically uncomfortable, but we were there, praying and singing and praying and singing…and fasting and fasting and praying and singing and fasting.

We went to the home of one of the visionaries. She certainly was NOT living high and dry. These people live in simple homes…not nearly as luxurious as a middle class home in the USA. No central air or heat. No microwave oven. etc.

The people are simple people. They open their homes to pilgrims. Why are people getting angry because they are earning a living by helping Christ’s pilgrims?

There is an impramataur on apparitions and inner locutions in this day and age because there are so many that the vatican cannot research them all. Not only that, but they cannot do a real study on these apparitions until they have ceased to happen…to be able to know whether what has been given in messages did indeed come to pass. That is the way of the Catholic Church.
We shall know it by its fruits.
Medjugoria’s fruits are true conversions. Since the Blessed Mother began appearing in Medjugoria, people have turned back to Christ.
None of the messages given by the Blessed Mother to the apparitioners has been wrong in any way.
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Well I was there twice, 1995 and again in 2006. Yes I found many people praying, confessing and doing many spiritual exercises simply because they have paid for the experience and want to enter into what they think is happening there. I find the same thing in my Parish Church but not i the same numbers, but there again they don’t pay large sums of money to travel to their local Church. To me Medjugorje is nothing more that a Disneyland experience for the disillusioned. You don;t pay to get into Disneyland for the hell of it or to sit on the fence. Once you’ve paid your money, you partake and enter into the experience hoping that you experience the same thing that you have heard about or wanting to replicate the experiences of others.

Why after the return home do we not see the same fervour and devotion in our Parishes? Why is it the same people go time and time again? Sometimes many pilgrimages within the same year? To me this shown symptoms of addiction. A religious type drug.

After one visit to Medj in particular I witnessed marriage breakdown, suicide and some folk who took a nervous breakdown.

As for the ‘apparitions’; as a scientist by trade and after much research and reflection and having spoken to some of the visionaries, and Fr Slavko in 1995, I can say that there is nothing of a supernatural nature happening there now. I am open to the fact that just maybe something did happen at one stage but nothing there now.

I am pained continually for those who have succumbed to the lie. All I can see is wait and see.
 
Fergal said:
Well I was there twice, 1995 and again in 2006. Yes I found many people praying, confessing and doing many spiritual exercises simply because they have paid for the experience and want to enter into what they think is happening there. I find the same thing in my Parish Church but not i the same numbers, but there again they don’t pay large sums of money to travel to their local Church. To me Medjugorje is nothing more that a Disneyland experience for the disillusioned. You don;t pay to get into Disneyland for the hell of it or to sit on the fence. Once you’ve paid your money, you partake and enter into the experience hoping that you experience the same thing that you have heard about or wanting to replicate the experiences of others.

I have met and talked to MANY people who have been to Medjugoria. And quite a few didn’t pay a dime toward their trip…like myself.
I have not met ONE person who has gone to Medjugoria in search of miracles except in the form of conversions. I have, however, met many people who have seen miraculous things while there. But everyone agrees that the most wonderful and important thing to experience in Medjugoria is FAITH in Christ. Doing the things, recieving the things that people who have gone on pilgrimages for thousands of years do and recieve. It is about deepening your faith…it is about love for Christ. It is not about seeing miracles. I would love to go to Lourdes, Knock, Fatima, Assissi, the tomb of St. Peter, Guadaloupe, etc. I wouldn’t expect to see an apparition of the Immaculate Heart of Mary or the Sacred Heart of Jesus while I was there. That would be totally presumptious.
People who treat Medjugoria or any of those places like they are Disneyland…or expect a Disneyland experience…are wasting their time…as that is so far away from what a pilgrimage is supposed to be about.

Why after the return home do we not see the same fervour and devotion in our Parishes? Why is it the same people go time and time again? Sometimes many pilgrimages within the same year? To me this shown symptoms of addiction. A religious type drug.

***Not everyone builds their faith on firm foundation. They lead their lives according to their emotions. It starts off with emotions…love often does…but it is up to each individual person to stay with the building of their faith. A pilgrimage does not mean the loss of free will.

And there have been many parishes that have been transformed by people in that parish going to Medjugoria. My home parish is a good example. After many began going to Medjugoria, we began to have a high attendance at daily Mass…and soon there were 2 Masses being said every single weekday…and confessions a half hour everyday before Masses in the evening. This goes on to this day. People came back from Medjugoria and began prayer meetings, and they began asking and praying for the exposisition of the Holy Eucharist. Within a short time, we had a Perpetual Adoration Chapel. That was opened more than 20 years ago. Devotion has spread.***

After one visit to Medj in particular I witnessed marriage breakdown, suicide and some folk who took a nervous breakdown.

Christ never forces Himself on people. The divorce, nerveous breakdown and suicide had nothing to do with Medjugoria. Many marriages took a hit because one spouse was converted, and the other had hardened his heart to conversion. My parents own marriage hit a spot. But the committment that they had to that Sacramental Marriage and their love for each other brought them through it. My father, through praying the Rosary and recieving the Sacraments began to study the Catholic Faith and Her history. Soon he was converted into a deeper faith in Christ Jesus. Their marriage made it through.
Some do not have the committment to withstand bumps in the road. You cannot possibly blame that on what goes on in Medjugoria.

As for the ‘apparitions’; as a scientist by trade and after much research and reflection and having spoken to some of the visionaries, and Fr Slavko in 1995, I can say that there is nothing of a supernatural nature happening there now. I am open to the fact that just maybe something did happen at one stage but nothing there now.

Science never did have anything at all to do with Medjugoria. Nor did it have anything to do with Fatima, Lourdes, or Christ Jesus Himself.

I am pained continually for those who have succumbed to the lie. All I can see is wait and see.
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One cannot truthfully say that it is a lie or truth at this point in time. The apparitions are still going on, so the investigation of the Church cannot fully happen until the apparitions have completed. As a scientist, you should know the order of things. And as a scientist you should also know that you cannot form an honest conclusion until the investigation has been completed.
 
Jesus_N_Cherie said:
One cannot truthfully say that it is a lie or truth at this point in time. The apparitions are still going on, so the investigation of the Church cannot fully happen until the apparitions have completed. As a scientist, you should know the order of things. And as a scientist you should also know that you cannot form an honest conclusion until the investigation has been completed.
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We need to be more precise with the language.

The claimed apparitions are still going on. To speak of them in the sense that you do is to have already validated their authenticity without evidence.

These are claimed apparitions.
 
Lepanto said:
We need to be more precise with the language.

The claimed apparitions are still going on. To speak of them in the sense that you do is to have already validated their authenticity without evidence.

These are claimed apparitions.
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I have not spoken of the apparitions at all. I was talking about what the people are experiencing in Medjugoria…and I have not mentioned the apparitions.
I have, however, said at least 2 times that the Church cannot take a stand until after the apparitions have concluded and the investigations are proven authentic or not.
I have talked about how people going to experience disneyland are going for all of the wrong reasons. And true conversions to the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary due to pilgrimages to Medjugoria are a proven fact. One does not have to believe in the apparitions to experience this or believe it.

There is an impramataur on Medjugoria…which means it will be proven true or false by its fruits. I have seen and heard of only wonderful fruits coming from Medjugoria.
 
Lepanto said:
This is not a video of a “visionary having her monthly apparition”.

It is a video of a woman who appears to be seeing an apparition.
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And because of the impramatuer, we can accept it as a visionary during an apparition, or a woman who appears to be a visionary during an apparition.

You are no more an authority of the authenticity of it than we are.
 
I will beleive when the church pronounces it as real not until

I hardly think that the local Bishop is making up lies about these people do you?
 
Jesus_N_Cherie said:
And because of the impramatuer, we can accept it as a visionary during an apparition, or a woman who appears to be a visionary during an apparition.

You are no more an authority of the authenticity of it than we are.
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Do you mean Imprimatur? A place cannot have an imprimatur, nor can a vision. It applies to written works. This only means that it can be printed and does not contain anything that directly contradicts the Faith. It has nothing to do with acceptance of the visions or the visionary.
 
Jesus_N_Cherie said:
And because of the impramatuer, we can accept it as a visionary during an apparition, or a woman who appears to be a visionary during an apparition.

You are no more an authority of the authenticity of it than we are.
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Until the Church officially decides on this matter, there are no such things as apparitions happening at Medjugoria. They are claimed apparitions by self-proclaimed seers.
 
Why can’t we just wait until the Church decides?

It seems that people are believing in this because they WANT to believe in it.
 
redrosetea said:
I will beleive when the church pronounces it as real not until

I hardly think that the local Bishop is making up lies about these people do you?
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Your decision to believe only if or when the Church pronounces it
authentic is TOTALLY acceptable. You are not called or compelled to do anything less. I am not asking you to do so. I am simply stating that there is an impramatuer on Medjugoria.

The local Bishop is not in control of this. The Vatican is. For some reason the authority was taken away from this particular Bishop. This was not done without Papal authority. I live in the USA. I trust the Pope much more than a local Bishop…with all due respect to all Bishops everywhere. And they certainly have my respect, love and prayers.
 
AN imprimatur doesn’t mean it isn’t junk food , only that it will not kill you if you eat it

I have read a lot of drivel with an imprimatur, about protection against snake bites if you read a certain prayer…or carry it on your person???

How many people are ever bitten by a snake to begin with??? I doubt that they all read or carried a certain prayer with them to prevent it

If good works are coming from Medjurje, it might mean that God is making good from evil…It doesn’t mean that these visions are true

When the church is convinced they are, I will beleive not until
 
I frankly hope it’s true…If it is not Catholics are going to look like superstitious idiots who tell outrageous lies

I know a lovely lady that has gone to Medjugorje…she will be so hurt if this is not true…It might cause people to lose their faith…The church must be careful
 
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