M
MagdalenaRita
Guest
Nothing wrong with discussing it. It’s even being discussed on EWTN.
Pope Francis approves correction of words of the Lords Prayer and Gloria in Italian Missal
- Status
D
Donkey
Guest
All is Grace.
S
Scott84
Guest
I do not like this at all! I would not be surprised if we should expect these changes to filter over into other languages (including English) soon.
Since Vatican II, the Holy Mother Church has been changing her longstanding traditions. We must always remember, while people change, God never does. The clergy sometimes seem to forget this.
Oh, how I am so wary of Pope Francis re-organizing the Roman Curia and stripping the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith of their power, and placing evangelization above all else.
I also do not like that Pope Francis has given precedence to local vernacular tongues over translations being faithful to the Latin - as Pope Benedict XVI decreed. Additionally, Pope Francis is taking power away from Rome to have final say on translations, and giving the power back to the local bishop conferences to make whatever changes they want to.
Blow me down matey! There be rough seas ahead!
Since Vatican II, the Holy Mother Church has been changing her longstanding traditions. We must always remember, while people change, God never does. The clergy sometimes seem to forget this.
Oh, how I am so wary of Pope Francis re-organizing the Roman Curia and stripping the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith of their power, and placing evangelization above all else.
I also do not like that Pope Francis has given precedence to local vernacular tongues over translations being faithful to the Latin - as Pope Benedict XVI decreed. Additionally, Pope Francis is taking power away from Rome to have final say on translations, and giving the power back to the local bishop conferences to make whatever changes they want to.
Blow me down matey! There be rough seas ahead!
Last edited:
P
ProVobis
Guest
Sanctified be Thy name.
P
ProVobis
Guest
It’s subjunctive. Shouldn’t it be?
A
AlbMagno
Guest
God can’t change. Format and disciplines can change. This is a matter of format.
Last edited:
P
Prodigal1984
Guest
I’m not sure it will come to America.
Mainly because of ecumenism.
The Church may not desire here to have a different Lords Prayer than those separated from us.
Many Protestants view this as an abomination as I’ve gathered on social media. I see it as whatever.
I think instead of changing it maybe just some catechis on the prayer would be fine, dont have to make priests go out and buy new missals over it. Though I suppose they could just correct the ones they have on those two lines but still.
The situation in Italy is different. They are releasing their third edition finally.( the one released here in 2011) that was propagated in 2008 in Latin. So they will have the people whining about the changes in the Missal as people did here, when I actually loved it. I took Latin and also go to the EF quite often, probably once a month on Sunday afternoons at a parish that offers it in my diocese about a half hour away. I thought the changes were true to the Latin, and actually always thought the translation from 1973 was sort of watered down and dull. I loved it. To this day people complain about it at times and I just don’t get it. People say what does consubstantial even mean? It’s like it isn’t that hard to Google it. Even twenty years ago I’d just say open a dictionary.
So with the Italian missel basically they are getting around to releasing that soon and just asked Pope Francis if they could have that change and he approved it.
It isn’t like Pope Francis just came out and said, the Prayer is this now as many media are falsely writing. It is more like he is giving it as an option and himself agrees is a better translation. The Holy See doesn’t deal with translations like they once did. They release a typical edition in Latin and leave it up to the local bishops conferences to make a translation in the vernacular and get a recognatio I believe. I think Francis may have even made that less strict too if I remember correctly.
More than likely the Prayer won’t be changed in the Missal in America until enough saints are added or feast days etc change to the point a new Missal is ordered, which doesn’t mean a new typical edition either. Saints and stuff like the insertion of Joseph into all the Eucharistic Prayers four years ago happens often and always has. But the USCCB wont request an updated one which presumably could have the new translation on the Lords Prayer and Gloria in that. Maybe ten years down the road.
Mainly because of ecumenism.
The Church may not desire here to have a different Lords Prayer than those separated from us.
Many Protestants view this as an abomination as I’ve gathered on social media. I see it as whatever.
I think instead of changing it maybe just some catechis on the prayer would be fine, dont have to make priests go out and buy new missals over it. Though I suppose they could just correct the ones they have on those two lines but still.
The situation in Italy is different. They are releasing their third edition finally.( the one released here in 2011) that was propagated in 2008 in Latin. So they will have the people whining about the changes in the Missal as people did here, when I actually loved it. I took Latin and also go to the EF quite often, probably once a month on Sunday afternoons at a parish that offers it in my diocese about a half hour away. I thought the changes were true to the Latin, and actually always thought the translation from 1973 was sort of watered down and dull. I loved it. To this day people complain about it at times and I just don’t get it. People say what does consubstantial even mean? It’s like it isn’t that hard to Google it. Even twenty years ago I’d just say open a dictionary.
So with the Italian missel basically they are getting around to releasing that soon and just asked Pope Francis if they could have that change and he approved it.
It isn’t like Pope Francis just came out and said, the Prayer is this now as many media are falsely writing. It is more like he is giving it as an option and himself agrees is a better translation. The Holy See doesn’t deal with translations like they once did. They release a typical edition in Latin and leave it up to the local bishops conferences to make a translation in the vernacular and get a recognatio I believe. I think Francis may have even made that less strict too if I remember correctly.
More than likely the Prayer won’t be changed in the Missal in America until enough saints are added or feast days etc change to the point a new Missal is ordered, which doesn’t mean a new typical edition either. Saints and stuff like the insertion of Joseph into all the Eucharistic Prayers four years ago happens often and always has. But the USCCB wont request an updated one which presumably could have the new translation on the Lords Prayer and Gloria in that. Maybe ten years down the road.
Last edited:
po18guy
Well-known member
Yes, but chat media is chat media. I do not participate in that, for valid reasons. “Everybody’s doing it” is no excuse and EWTN must generate revenue, just as MSNBC, CNN and all the others must do. I have come to believe that to a certain degree, it is controversy for the sake of controversy. We have Bishops and Cardinals to deal with Church matters. Our duty is to pray and to submit and obey in all matters except sin.
Gossip is discussion. Detraction is discussion. Calumny is discussion. Are they good? Where is the focus on, where is the room for exercising the virtues in these “discussions”?
In our culture, we talk way too much and pray way too little. A read of Matthew 12:36-37 should be sobering for us - me first.
Last edited:
B
Bon_Croix
Guest
UCatholic doesen’t provide any information on its website to verify it has official permission from the Church to publish anything.
I
InThePew
Guest
You’re confusing traditions with Tradition - the former can and has changed considerably over the course of the Church’s 2000 year history. the latter is unchanging.
Properly speaking the Secretariat of State is the premier department. That said, JPII reformed the curia with Pastor Bonus in 1988 as did Paul VI before him in 1967 and Pius X in 1908. Reorganisation to meet the changing needs of the world isn’t just important it’s essential for the curia to function effectively. The CDF will continue to do much of what it already does; whatever changes may happen to its place in the order of precedence.
The problem with Liturgicum Authenticum (which required close adherence to the original Latin) is that it produced some horribly clunky and convoluted sentences - especially in the collects and in a few of the prefaces due to the differences in sentence structure between English and Latin. Allowing local conferences more freedom makes sense since they will be comprised of those who speak the language being translated into and so likely to have a better understanding for what works and what doesn’t. In the case of English, the translation work was done by the International Commission on English in the Liturgy (ICEL) and then presented to Rome for their approval (something which will continue to happen). Of course this is really only an issue for major languages (and English in particular). Somehow I doubt the Congregation for Divine Worship spends too much time worrying about the nuances of translations of the missal into Samoan, Pidgin or Albanian (which are translated from one of the major languages - often English - any way).
po18guy
Well-known member
Am now wondering if this even hapened. Not a peep in the Catholic News Agency - going back several days before this allegedly occurred. I wonder if uCatholic is affiliatioed with the notorius LifeSiteNews? Must do some checking.
Last edited:
O
Odilon
Guest
Sorry Pope Francis, not this time. I went right along with the other liturgical changes but this is one step too far. I am 62 years old and will continue to say the Lords Prayer as I always have, except from now on LOUDER and with MORE CONVICTION!
O
Odilon
Guest
I already understand what was meant by the Lord’s Prayer and how we have been saying it. Count me out on this one.
C
CilladeRoma
Guest
Are you an Italian living in Italy?
If not, it’s not your problem.
Why are people so up in arms about this?
If not, it’s not your problem.
Why are people so up in arms about this?
Last edited:
A
angel12
Guest
Because it’s Pope Francis. Would have been a different reaction if it had been Pope Emeritus Benedict.Why are people so up in arms about this?
O
OraLabora
Guest
Thé change has already happened in Quebec and France, for the French version.
It was awkward at first, but after 6 months I can now say it’s pretty much automatic. Some slight changes had to be made to the melody at the abbey where it is chanted at Mass in French (at Lauds and Vespers they use Latin), but by now everyone has it down pat. I would add that I am 60. And the monks on average, 70. So if we can do it…
The biggest impediment for me, was that I only chant the Lord’s Prayer twice a week in French, at Mass. For the Liturgy of the Hours, I only use the Latin version. So it took a bit longer to change my habits.
It was awkward at first, but after 6 months I can now say it’s pretty much automatic. Some slight changes had to be made to the melody at the abbey where it is chanted at Mass in French (at Lauds and Vespers they use Latin), but by now everyone has it down pat. I would add that I am 60. And the monks on average, 70. So if we can do it…
The biggest impediment for me, was that I only chant the Lord’s Prayer twice a week in French, at Mass. For the Liturgy of the Hours, I only use the Latin version. So it took a bit longer to change my habits.
L
lilypadrees
Guest
I prefer the Our Father and the Gloria the way they’ve always been. Why tamper with perfection?
T
TrueRomanCatholic
Guest
I may swallow my words but I’m not changing my words to Holy Mother Churchs liturgy or Holy Prayers again!!
These men need to find some time to address real problems instead of wasting it translating dead languages over and over again!
P
pnewton
Guest
My own modern equivalency translation is, “No pop quizzes please.”
I found this commentary.
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/6-13.htm
It is not Catholic, but it is just dealing with the language. I am not bothered by this, as I grew up with numerous translations anyway. A translation, as long as it is solid, is a silly thing to be upset over, and both the old and proposed are good translations.
I found this commentary.
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/6-13.htm
It is not Catholic, but it is just dealing with the language. I am not bothered by this, as I grew up with numerous translations anyway. A translation, as long as it is solid, is a silly thing to be upset over, and both the old and proposed are good translations.
C
Cruciferi
Guest
Same here.
- Status