Pope Francis assures sceptics: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven

[Elizabeth502]

it just seems like he knows something we don’t about our world. He is calling everyone of every faith and even no faith to repent, and turn to God the best they can immediately. He is speaking of the Devil and is out in front of world issues and conflicts. That is the mark of a Pope that is leading us through the last days.

There’s someone (I wish I remembered his name) who studied Francis’ first gestures & language very early after election. He very much signs on to your thesis as well. This guy (he’s not someone out of left field; he has some rationale to his beliefs about this) believes that it’s entirely possible that Francis has had a private revelation about how long he himself has to live (i.e., have a papacy), and that he is working fast, because of it. It’s also possible of course, that he does sense/think/know that the end times are nearer than many think, and that, as the poster irishpatrick has said a couple of times, the Pope recognizes his responsibility to bring sinners urgently into the opportunity for mercy, in a last or near-to-last phase before the Second Coming.

 

[ephesians2]

Well your right about Jesus being the only way-- so he must be involved when people from other religions get touched by God and have their lives changed. Jesus is bigger than your religion. I have met people from other religions that love with an intensity that is clearly supernatural, that clearly does not come from themselves but of course you are more spiritual than them…

No, franklinstower, just blessed because of Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ. I am no better than any other sinner walking this earth.

I believe there is salvation in no one else, for there is **no other name **under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. That “Name” is Jesus Christ. I did not make this up though. It is not just my opinion. It is not just how I feel God feels. Peter said it through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (Acts 4).

I know I repeated myself and you may not agree with Peter who was under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (Acts 4, verse 8), but I choose to take him at his word and every other verse stating that Christ is the only Way and He is the only Truth and Light, He is the Door, the Bread of Life, the Good Shepherd who laid down His life for the sheep, not the goats. I pray for unbelievers and believers alike. I wish there wasn’t a place called Hell, but Jesus talked about Hell quite a bit during His earthly ministry, so I choose to heed His advice and warnings.

 

[franklinstower]

No, franklinstower, just blessed because of Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ. I am no better than any other sinner walking this earth.

I believe there is salvation in no one else, for there is **no other name **under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. That “Name” is Jesus Christ. I did not make this up though. It is not just my opinion. It is not just how I feel God feels. Peter said it through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (Acts 4).

I know I repeated myself and you may not agree with Peter who was under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (Acts 4, verse 8), but I choose to take him at his word and every other verse stating that Christ is the only Way and He is the only Truth and Light, He is the Door, the Bread of Life, the Good Shepherd who laid down His life for the sheep, not the goats. I pray for unbelievers and believers alike. I wish there wasn’t a place called Hell, but Jesus talked about Hell quite a bit during His earthly ministry, so I choose to heed His advice and warnings.

Like I said- I agree that Jesus is the only way I just think he is working under a much larger paradigm than you or your religion are. I think you interpret them far too narrowly. I agree with all of those verses you quoted, I just don’t interpret them as narrowly as you do. Its the same problem people are always coming up against- we read the same books-- but we hear a different message. There is no solving this problem in the end.

When I learned that Jesus was literally the incarnation of God-- it immediately made sense to me that you can know him without knowing his name, since he is everywhere in the whole cosmos. I know it says that Jesus is the only “name” by which man can be saved but I don’t think that excludes his “spirit” from working anonymously, or the Holy Spirit for that matter.

Also who are the sheep and who are the goats? I absolutely do not believe that you can tell that by who goes to church on Sunday and who doesn’t-- or by who claims Jesus as savior and who is a practicing Buddhist.

The church is the people of God-- I just think we will all be surprised at who they are.

 

[ephesians2]

Like I said- I agree that Jesus is the only way I just think he is working under a much larger paradigm than you or your religion are. I think you interpret them far too narrowly. I agree with all of those verses you quoted, I just don’t interpret them as narrowly as you do. Its the same problem people are always coming up against- we read the same books-- but we hear a different message. There is no solving this problem in the end.

When I learned that Jesus was literally the incarnation of God-- it immediately made sense to me that you can know him without knowing his name, since he is everywhere in the whole cosmos. I know it says that Jesus is the only “name” by which man can be saved but I don’t think that excludes his “spirit” from working anonymously, or the Holy Spirit for that matter.

Also who are the sheep and who are the goats? I absolutely do not believe that you can tell that by who goes to church on Sunday and who doesn’t-- or by who claims Jesus as savior and who is a practicing Buddhist.

The church is the people of God-- I just think we will all be surprised at who they are.

So what you are saying is your way of viewing religion and salvation is a more enlightened stance and superior to mine. It would allow the world to be a better more peaceful and open-minded, loving place. I am saying that my way of viewing salvation is the correct way and would allow for the world to be a better, more peaceful place, etc… So in a sense, both you and I are “narrow”, franklinstower. SO where do we go as Christians to find out who is correct? The Bible as a whole, from front to back, is very clear on the Way of salvation…You will NOT see the kingdom of God unless you are born again. What does it mean to be “born again”?

I never said the Holy Spirit can not work anonymously.

Ultimately, I have no idea who is a sheep or a goat. God can work in anyone at any point in his or her life. The Bible says only God can see into a man’s heart. Men look on the outside and some put up a great facade like you said, by going to church or doing pious deeds, or bring the “best Hindu he can be” or donating thousands of dollars to a charity or tithing, etc… They are “good” according to the world (fleshly goodness), but God sees their heart and if they have not been changed by His Spirit, the outlook according to Christ, is not pleasant. We are not saved by our deeds or by being a “good [insert religion here]”. If we are, Christ Jesus died in vain.

 

[RACJ]

Pope Francis is beginning to make me VERY nervous, frankly. Rob

 

[franklinstower]

]
So what you are saying is your way of viewing religion and salvation is a more enlightened stance and superior to mine. It would allow the world to be a better more peaceful and open-minded, loving place. I am saying that my way of viewing salvation is the correct way and would allow for the world to be a better, more peaceful place, etc… So in a sense, both you and I are “narrow”, franklinstower. SO where do we go as Christians to find out who is correct? The Bible as a whole, from front to back, is very clear on the Way of salvation…You will NOT see the kingdom of God unless you are born again. What does it mean to be “born again”?

I never said the Holy Spirit can not work anonymously.

Ultimately, I have no idea who is a sheep or a goat. God can work in anyone at any point in his or her life. The Bible says only God can see into a man’s heart. Men look on the outside and some put up a great facade like you said, by going to church or doing pious deeds, or bring the “best Hindu he can be” or donating thousands of dollars to a charity or tithing, etc… They are “good” according to the world (fleshly goodness), but God sees their heart and if they have not been changed by His Spirit, the outlook according to Christ, is not pleasant. We are not saved by our deeds or by being a “good [insert religion here]”. If we are, Christ Jesus died in vain.

We do both go to the Bible-- the problem is in how we interpret what it says, which verses are emphasised over others, what ones to take absolutely literally and which ones we feel are allegories, analogies and parables etc. It is absolutely impossible to deny that interpretation plays a huge role in reading the scriptures.

As I have grown in Love and in the awareness of the presence of the Trinity in my life I have noticed an undeniable and marked change in how I hear what I am reading. Gods power increasingly becomes the backdrop, the foundational energy in which the words exist. In some areas it has made me far more strict in how I hear it-- always in areas of moral concern and always with the focus on me and my weaknesses.

In the areas of who can be saved Gods power has done nothing but open my understanding and show me how he is everywhere in everyone-- working. What has happened to me, happened before I was exposed to Catholic understanding on Sola
Scriptura and Invincible Ignorance which have confirmed it.

When a Buddhist is struck by a blinding white light and is radically transformed by the power of God and his or her entire outlook on life is changed permanently and he now forgives and loves and thinks in ways he could not before and is permanently aware of Gods power and lives in it-- he is born again. I would dare say, based on the relative rarity of this intensity of experience,that he has been born again with an intensity that you yourself have not-- and cannot even relate too. I would also dare say that he has the mind of Christ in a more intense way than many Christians despite being immersed in doctrines that are sometimes contrary to Christ and sometimes place focus and attention in energies that are below Christ.

 

[peace2u2]

They can’t.

The only ways they can be saved are either to convert (go to God with a sincere and contrite heart, exactly as Pope Francis said), or to be invincibly ignorant of the Gospel (in which case it is possible that God could save them). An atheist that is aware of the Gospel is not saved.

I agree with your post. But, what do you mean by being “aware”? Do you mean as knowing the Gospels exists, yet I refuse to read the Gospels and apply it to my life or do you mean “aware” as didn’t know that the Gospel even exists?

 

[peace2u2]

I would also dare say that he has the mind of Christ in a more intense way than many Christians **despite being immersed in doctrines that are sometimes contrary to Christ **and sometimes place focus and attention in energies that are below Christ.

Which Doctrines do you think are contrary to Christ and are below Him?

The Doctrines of the Catholic Church are the teachings of Jesus explained as truth for people like you and me so we don’t stumble in error by dividing the Word of God.

That line in Luke 10:16 that says, “HE WHO HEARS YOU,HEARS ME”, is Jesus talking to His Apostles, the first Bishops of the Catholic Church, it doesn’t mean you or me in our own interpretation.

See articles:

ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/LK1016.TXT

ewtn.com/faith/teachings/index.asp

If you have a misunderstanding on Church Doctrines, start a forum on the ones you are having trouble with and I would be happy to help you by showing you Scripture that supports Church Doctrine.

List of Doctrines:

There Is Only One God
God Doesn’t Change
The Holy Spirit Is God
Jesus Christ Is True God
The Trinity
The Saints
Life After Death: Heaven and Hell
Mary
Original Sin
Purgatory
Salvation
Grace

 

[franklinstower]

Which Doctrines do you think are contrary to Christ and are below Him?

The Doctrines of the Catholic Church are the teachings of Jesus explained as truth for people like you and me so we don’t stumble in error by dividing the Word of God.

That line in Luke 10:16 that says, “HE WHO HEARS YOU,HEARS ME”, is Jesus talking to His Apostles, the first Bishops of the Catholic Church, it doesn’t mean you or me in our own interpretation.

See articles:

ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/LK1016.TXT

ewtn.com/faith/teachings/index.asp

If you have a misunderstanding on Church Doctrines, start a forum on the ones you are having trouble with and I would be happy to help you by showing you Scripture that supports Church Doctrine.

List of Doctrines:

There Is Only One God
God Doesn’t Change
The Holy Spirit Is God
Jesus Christ Is True God
The Trinity
The Saints
Life After Death: Heaven and Hell
Mary
Original Sin
Purgatory
Salvation
Grace

I think you misunderstood who I was referring to in the highlighted portion and that cast the wrong light for you on the rest of my post. I was referring to Buddhism in the highlighted section. What I was referring to were the non dual teachings in Buddhism and also the impersonal teachings and also the part where you have to attain enlightenment “solely through your own effort.” And also to a lesser extent the portion of Buddhism that has the tendency to feel that weather there is a God or not is irrelevant.

 

[ephesians2]

We do both go to the Bible-- the problem is in how we interpret what it says, which verses are emphasised over others, what ones to take absolutely literally and which ones we feel are allegories, analogies and parables etc. It is absolutely impossible to deny that interpretation plays a huge role in reading the scriptures.

As I have grown in Love and in the awareness of the presence of the Trinity in my life I have noticed an undeniable and marked change in how I hear what I am reading. Gods power increasingly becomes the backdrop, the foundational energy in which the words exist. In some areas it has made me far more strict in how I hear it-- always in areas of moral concern and always with the focus on me and my weaknesses.

In the areas of who can be saved Gods power has done nothing but open my understanding and show me how he is everywhere in everyone-- working. What has happened to me, happened before I was exposed to Catholic understanding on Sola
Scriptura and Invincible Ignorance which have confirmed it.

When a Buddhist is struck by a blinding white light and is radically transformed by the power of God and his or her entire outlook on life is changed permanently and he now forgives and loves and thinks in ways he could not before and is permanently aware of Gods power and lives in it-- he is born again. I would dare say, based on the relative rarity of this intensity of experience,that he has been born again with an intensity that you yourself have not-- and cannot even relate too. I would also dare say that he has the mind of Christ in a more intense way than many Christians despite being immersed in doctrines that are sometimes contrary to Christ and sometimes place focus and attention in energies that are below Christ.

Thankyou for your response, franklinstower and thank you for taking the time to answer my question about being born again. I have read what you believe it means to be “born again”. Unfortunately, when I read what God says (clearly in my opinion), He does not say what you say. This is such a massive subject to talk about in a few short posts, but I’ll give it a try. I’ll start with… I think you should be careful about what you assume about me. The statement that whomever you are talking about above (the Buddhist) has had a greater “experience” than me as far as being born again is presumptuous. You do not know me or the experiences I have had or my background. That being said, I understand that my stance on Jesus Christ and HIM being the only Way to the Father (eternal life with God in His fullness) is seen in today’s day as being “close-minded, intolerant and bigoted”. I have a few questions for you. A Buddhist does not need a SaviorGod because a Buddhist relies on himself. How does the Buddhist above have the mind of Christ if he does not believe Christ (Anointed) is Jesus (Savior)? What is the mind of Christ and how does one attain it? (I Corinthians 2)

“For everyone who has been born of God has overcome the world”. I will now ask a favor of you. Read 1 John 5.

What is the “world”? Why do we have to overcome it? Why does God tell us not to be of it? I’ll stop here for now. I judge this is getting off topic in a sense, but then again it isn’t.

 

[franklinstower]

Thankyou for your response, franklinstower and thank you for taking the time to answer my question about being born again. I have read what you believe it means to be “born again”. Unfortunately, when I read what God says (clearly in my opinion), He does not say what you say. This is such a massive subject to talk about in a few short posts, but I’ll give it a try. I’ll start with… I think you should be careful about what you assume about me. The statement that whomever you are talking about above (the Buddhist) has had a greater “experience” than me as far as being born again is presumptuous. You do not know me or the experiences I have had or my background. That being said, I understand that my stance on Jesus Christ and HIM being the only Way to the Father (eternal life with God in His fullness) is seen in today’s day as being “close-minded, intolerant and bigoted”. I have a few questions for you. A Buddhist does not need a SaviorGod because a Buddhist relies on himself. How does the Buddhist above have the mind of Christ if he does not believe Christ (Anointed) is Jesus (Savior)? What is the mind of Christ and how does one attain it? (I Corinthians 2)

“For everyone who has been born of God has overcome the world”. I will now ask a favor of you. Read 1 John 5.

What is the “world”? Why do we have to overcome it? Why does God tell us not to be of it? I’ll stop here for now. I judge this is getting off topic in a sense, but then again it isn’t.

I am not sure where to go with this. There is the tendency to get lost in a minutia of details and go back and forth quoting scriptures at each other and really in the end it is almost never the case that anyone is benefited by it-- I have never been. If you want to know what it means to be born again then the tract “Are Catholics born again” would be a good place to start-- at least to get the catholic perspective on it. It is here on this web-sight and explains in a lot of detail what it means to be born again. I do not bother with this kind of debate because I have seen the best of the best go at it in this way and come to nothing in the end.

As far as your spirituality goes I should have been more clear. My point wasn’t really about weather you are super spiritual or not- you may well be. My point is that there are many Buddhists or Hindus or Jews etc who are more spiritual than many Christians who are born again. My point is that God is working salvation out-- outside of the Christian church, outside of all of the different denominations, while working inside of them as well.

A really good book to read on the second highlighted portion of your post is “Bede Griffiths” “An introduction to his interspiritual thought.” Here he compares and contrasts the Christian experience of union with God in the Trinity with the very similar Hindu experience of Saccitananda and to a lesser degree with Buddhism. If you can set aside prejudice then it is easy to see astounding similarities between these systems.

In the end it all comes down to where each of us thinks we can draw accurate spiritual truth. I think you believe it can only come from the bible- Sola Scriptura, which I mentioned in my previous post. While I believe that you can get accurate spiritual teachings from scripture and tradition-- (all of them presumably) and direct experience (the community of believers-- all of them).

If we continue this discussion it would be really helpful if you identify your position on sola scriptura and also more sweepingly what theological strain you are drawing your conclusions and opinions from-- otherwise we could go back and forth for days figuring that out in a really inefficient manner.

If we get to far off topic which I dont think we are yet we could continue via pm.

 

[peace2u2]

My point is that there are many Buddhists or Hindus or Jews etc who are more spiritual than many Christians who are born again. My point is that God is working salvation out-- outside of the Christian church, outside of all of the different denominations, while working inside of them as well.

This is what the Catholic Church teaches on this subject:

The Church and non-Christians

839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”325 (856, 63, 147)

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 “the first to hear the Word of God.”327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”;328 “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”329

840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus. (674, 597)

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”330

842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: (360)

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city… 331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”332 (28, 856)

To read further on this topic:

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm

 

[franklinstower]

This is what the Catholic Church teaches on this subject:

The Church and non-Christians

839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”325 (856, 63, 147)

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 “the first to hear the Word of God.”327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”;328 “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”329

840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus. (674, 597)

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”330

842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: (360)

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city… 331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”332 (28, 856)

To read further on this topic:

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm

Thank you for the effort. I have read these sections as recently as last week. I am not a Catholic so I am not bound by any of these statements. Often times I refer people to the teachings of the Catholic church because it has had and still has a profound and positive effect on my spirituality.

 

[franklinstower]

peace2u2- Here is a commentary on the CCC, and a small quote from it.

The assertion that there are no invincibly ignorant people also is manifestly contrary to the teaching of the Church, which acknowledges that there are “righteous people in all religions” (CCC 2569)

Now-- I don’t know the official teaching in the CCC by heart but I would be very curious to find out if it makes a direct distinction and not an implied one- on the levels of righteousness between the righteous people in other religions and Catholics or even Christians in general.

 

[white_sheep]

I thought he said atheists can go the heaven as long as they humble themselves before God and beg his forgiveness.

 

[stuart12]

If he truly said that and meant it, he would be a heretic. The media plays a huge part in presenting their own slant with his words. However, Pope Francis continues to make me nervous. His clarity as a speaker is appalling. In an age of 24 hour news, he must be completely clear as to what he means, or he will continue to cause confusion and scandal.

 

[pnewton]

If he truly said that and meant it, he would be a heretic.

No, he wouldn’t. The Catholic Church has no dogma on who finally gets into heaven and who doesn’t, except in general terms of being in a state of mortal sin, or not; committing the impardonable sin, or not. According the Catechism is it possible in theory for an atheist to get into heaven.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I thought he said atheists can go the heaven as long as they humble themselves before God and beg his forgiveness.

This is what I don’t understand. In our rush to explain away the Pope’s words we dig ourselves deeper. How can someone who does not believe in God turn to God and beg his forgiveness? An Atheist would stop being an atheist the moment that happened. So it makes no sense and must not be what the Pope meant. I think he meant what he said and what an atheist might think it meant. Since it was directed not to believers but unbelievers. It was not a call to believe, it was a call to do good.

What you are saying would apply more to an agnostic. “IF there is a God I turn to Him in Mercy IF He exists.”

An atheist would not say," God, you do not exist, please forgive me."

 

[white_sheep]

This is what I don’t understand. In our rush to explain away the Pope’s words we dig ourselves deeper. How can someone who does not believe in God turn to God and beg his forgiveness? An Atheist would stop being an atheist the moment that happened. So it makes no sense and must not be what the Pope meant. I think he meant what he said and what an atheist might think it meant. Since it was directed not to believers but unbelievers. It was not a call to believe, it was a call to do good.

What you are saying would apply more to an agnostic. “IF there is a God I turn to Him in Mercy IF He exists.”

An atheist would not say," God, you do not exist, please forgive me."

That’s just how it seemed to me.

 

[ephesians2]

I am not sure where to go with this. There is the tendency to get lost in a minutia of details and go back and forth quoting scriptures at each other and really in the end it is almost never the case that anyone is benefited by it-- I have never been. If you want to know what it means to be born again then the tract “Are Catholics born again” would be a good place to start-- at least to get the catholic perspective on it. It is here on this web-sight and explains in a lot of detail what it means to be born again. I do not bother with this kind of debate because I have seen the best of the best go at it in this way and come to nothing in the end.

As far as your spirituality goes I should have been more clear. My point wasn’t really about weather you are super spiritual or not- you may well be. My point is that there are many Buddhists or Hindus or Jews etc who are more spiritual than many Christians who are born again. My point is that God is working salvation out-- outside of the Christian church, outside of all of the different denominations, while working inside of them as well.

A really good book to read on the second highlighted portion of your post is “Bede Griffiths” “An introduction to his interspiritual thought.” Here he compares and contrasts the Christian experience of union with God in the Trinity with the very similar Hindu experience of Saccitananda and to a lesser degree with Buddhism. If you can set aside prejudice then it is easy to see astounding similarities between these systems.

In the end it all comes down to where each of us thinks we can draw accurate spiritual truth. I think you believe it can only come from the bible- Sola Scriptura, which I mentioned in my previous post. While I believe that you can get accurate spiritual teachings from scripture and tradition-- (all of them presumably) and direct experience (the community of believers-- all of them).

If we continue this discussion it would be really helpful if you identify your position on sola scriptura and also more sweepingly what theological strain you are drawing your conclusions and opinions from-- otherwise we could go back and forth for days figuring that out in a really inefficient manner.

If we get to far off topic which I dont think we are yet we could continue via pm.

“I do not bother with this kind of debate because I have seen the best of the best go at it in this way and come to nothing in the end.” I understand what you are saying here, but would disagree because I choose to look at our dialog as a vitamin of sorts. Like a Faith strengthener. I understand what it means to be “born again” according to the Bible. I didn’t agree with what you said about being born again because it contradicted the Bible.

Buddhist, Hindus and Jews may well be “more spiritual” according to the worlds terms, but they will not be more Spiritual according to the God’s terms. Read Galatians 5. It is only about 26 verses. Let me know what you think.

I am not prejudice in the sense that I hate Hindus, Buddhists or any other person of whatever religion. I just unapologetically believe what Christ Jesus says about Himself and what the Bible teaches throughout it’s many books from Genesis to Revelation. I understand that many will view my beliefs as close-minded, hateful and like you said above a biased view or that I cannot set aside prejudice.

"In the end it all comes down to where each of us thinks we can draw accurate spiritual truth. " I agree with you here and your assessment about where I choose to look for Truth and thee Truth is correct.

I am a firm believer in Christ and that He is the only Way, Truth, Life, Gate, Light, Author and Perfecter of our faith and He alone is the Savior. You deny Him and His work, you deny the Father. You deny Him and His work, you have not been changed by the Holy Spirit.

I’ve enjoyed our dialog, franklinstower, but you have not answered my questions. If you do not want to or if they make you uncomfortable, just let me know and I’ll cease to ask. These are the questions I asked and I’d like to know your thoughts.

How does the Buddhist have the mind of Christ if he does not believe Christ (Anointed) is Jesus (Savior)? What is the mind of Christ and how does one attain it? (I Corinthians 2)

“For everyone who has been born of God has overcome the world”. I will now ask a favor of you. Read 1 John 5. What is the “world”? Why do we have to overcome it? Why does God tell us not to be of it?