Pope Francis at Mass: Bishops must pray to overcome 'Great Accuser’ - Vatican

[JSRG]

Is there a FULL version of this homily anywhere? All I can find are snippets, and it seems unfair to judge any part of it without seeing the full context.

 

[philipl]

I have been told that my anger is the work of the devil. The sins of these bishops is no worse than allowing food to go to waste. We are all sinner so how dare I question any of the church leaders.

If the church leaders keep going down this path they will cause a backlash. If the church leaders want to pick a fight with elected officials the elected officials are going to win. I know that I am writing state leaders here in TN to force the church to release all records it may hold about priest abuse and cover ups. Here in TN we dont have a large Catholic population. So its not like they are going to lose any votes.

Keep it up with telling rightfully angry people they are being controlled by Satan. You then see state legislature start to push thru laws that will force church leaders to be held accountable.

This is going to get worse. If the leaders think blaming the accusers for this scandal is a winning strategy, it is not.

 

[bullish1]

Condemning Pope Francis is slander

Actually you are wrong. Who is condemning him? That is for God alone to do. A key component to committing slander or calumny is being deceitful in an attempt to discredit someone. We don’t know if Vagano was deceitful yet so we can’t honestly say that he is committing slander. Pope Francis accused the accusers in Chile of calumny. So unless he had supernatural incite about the case, he possibly committed calumny himself about the accusers as they seem to have been speaking the truth and the Pope has walked that back several times now. Regardless of the Popes intent to deceive or not, it was an incredibly tone deaf, insensitive thing to say. So you can accuse me of something here, but slander and calumny are not options.

 

[bullish1]

like I said, I am done with it. People that have a right to be angry at the way this has been handled. Yet this pope is telling us the devil made me do it. Maybe just maybe I have Prayed and GOD is telling me to be angry and let the church leaders know you are angry. Until this Pope is gone, I am dome with the church. PERIOD. Lets get us an African Pope that will rid the remove all the evil church leaders that have caused so much damage.

I agree that people have a right to be angry. I am angry. I believe it is a righteous anger that will help me see this horrible stuff rooted out and sustain me in what is going to be a very messy cleansing. Please don’t be done with the church. The bride of Christ will prevail. She is not done with you.

 

[Donkey]

This is going to get worse. If the leaders think blaming the accusers for this scandal is a winning strategy, it is not.

That is what will happen if the following is true…the 300 page dossier supposedly resurfaced in the hands of Italian journalists. There was a generous window of time to correct errors.

 

[13pollitos]

Sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance.

1867 The catechetical tradition also recalls that there are “sins that cry to heaven” : the blood of Abel,139 the sin of the Sodomites,140 the cry of the people oppressed in Egypt,141 the cry of the foreigner, the widow, and the orphan,142 injustice to the wage earner.143

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm

We are watching God react to the sins of our pastors.

 

[kyrie03]

Is there a FULL version of this homily anywhere? All I can find are snippets, and it seems unfair to judge any part of it without seeing the full context.

I sure LOOKED! I originally posted from the Vatican’s twitter but it led to a dead end. Catholic.net carried the same article from the Vatican.

I agree, snippets aren’t the full story.

 

[kyrie03]

And THAT is exactly the danger seeking to destroy…the civil authorities stepping in because the ecclesiastical authority is shirking their duty.

It is lawful for civil authority to protect the good of the citizens. However, the Church is the superior authority and She alone has the power to correct, as She has done throughout her 2000 year history. The world, the flesh, and the devil are the 3 enemies seeking to destroy the Church. Christ assures us they will not prevail, but He DOESN’T say they won’t come awfully close! The CCC speaks of the Church following in the footsteps of Christ…She WILL undergo the same ignominious passion and death before the resurrection. Is now that time?

Please, pray for our Holy Father and the bishops to exercise their authority! It is our only hope The chastisements we are witnessing, especially the loss of faith, must be lovingly suffered in reparation and supplication for mercy.

We can recognize the danger but we are powerless to correct. He who holds the Keys must act!

 

[kyrie03]

@FishyPete

The original human criminals are guilty, as are anyone who covered up for them. But GUESS WHAT? Jesus died for them to, news flash THEY CAN BE FORGIVEN. But not by social media.

When the sinner repents there is untold joy in heaven. The bigger the sinner, the bigger the rejoicing I imagine.

I understand your point. You didn’t suggest that the priest REPENTED or made restitution…which is necessary, of course, for the following love story I posted about on another thread:

Research Don Marco Bisceglia , the founder of the organized gay movement in Italy and Catholic priest who was stripped of clerical office, contracted AIDS, repented, and prior to death, requested of the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith( Cd Ratzinger) and received a suspension of the a divinis to offer the Holy Sacrifice. He died peacefully in 2001, in the grace of the sacraments

 

[bullish1]

Research Don Marco Bisceglia , the founder of the organized gay movement in Italy and Catholic priest who was stripped of clerical office, contracted AIDS, repented, and prior to death, requested of the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith( Cd Ratzinger) and received a suspension of the a divinis to offer the Holy Sacrifice. He died peacefully in 2001, in the grace of the sacraments

Imagine the good that would come from a current version of that witness. Say Cardinal McCarrick. I keep asking myself if these confirmed abusive priests even believe their vows or is it just a big sham? I have struggled with sin often and only get peace through reconciliation. Their public reconciliation for very public & horrible sin could be powerful!

 

[Annie]

It seems to me that a co-conspirator cannot absolve those sins in which he conspired. Someone else may know for sure.

However, it is true that God forgives everyone, if they repent. They still have to work out their temporal punishment, however, and I can only imagine how heavy that punishment would be for these priests.

As to the victim’s, how can you think a loving God would not see the sorrow in their hearts and understand deeply their wounds? God sees into our hearts and evaluates us with perfect justice and with perfect mercy.

Pray for the healing of the victims.

 

[kyrie03]

In a 3rd sermon, Pope Francis discusses the Great Accuser.

Pope at Mass: the cross teaches us not to fear defeat - Vatican News

Speaking to the faithful gathered for Mass at the Casa Santa Marta, Pope Francis reflected on how the cross, the mark of Christians, the mark of God’s ...

www.vaticannews.va

The Pope recalled that in the first Reading, the Book of Numbers tells of the moment during the Exodus when the people who complained “were punished by serpents”. This, he said, refers to the ancient serpent, Satan, the “Great Accuser”. But, the Pope continued, the Lord told Moses that the serpent that brought death would be raised and would bring salvation. Francis explained that this “is a prophecy”. In fact, he said, “having been made sin, Jesus defeated the author of sin, he defeated the serpent”. And Satan, the Pope commented, was so happy on Good Friday “that he did not notice” the great trap “of history in which he was to fall.

Apologies that I couldn’t find the complete sermon. However, this is what the Vatican released so I post it. I pasted the part where he references the Great Accuser.

Did the pope REALLY say: “having been made sin, Jesus defeated the author of sin”?

Anyone else concerned that Pope Francis (according to the Vatican translation) claims Jesus, the all holy, all-sinless One, was made sin?

Can anyone explain how this could be true?

 

[Annie]

See 2Cor 5:21.

This is the Haydock commentary: * Sin for us": That is, to be a sin offering, a victim for sin.*

Here’s the real link: Douay-Rheims Bible, 2 Corinthians Chapter 5

Dr Haydock put together the commentary from the EFCs, mostly to counter Protestant arguments, in case you were wondering about the source.

 

[kyrie03]

Thanks for Scripture reference, it’s the same I found.

Christ, like the bronze serpent of Moses, took the form of that which brought death to his people — the form of Adam . He was then raised up in the form of that which caused the evil, like the bronze serpent (not the actual serpent) was raised up, to heal us of our sins.

It appears to be very different from the interpretation Pope Francis. Here are 2 of his meditations I found:

The serpent, the Pontiff clarified, is a “symbol of sin, the serpent that kills. But the serpent that saves: this is the mystery of Christ”. St Paul, the Pope recalled, also spoke of this mystery. “He said that Jesus emptied himself, humbled himself, annihilated himself in order to save us”. Moreover, the Apostle offers an even stronger expression: “he became sin”. Thus, using the biblical symbol, we could say: “he became serpent”. This, Francis said, is “the prophetic message of today’s readings. The Son of man, who like a serpent ‘became sin’, is lifted up in order to save us”.

The serpent that kills and the one that saves (15 March 2016) | Francis

“ This is why the Lord says to them: ‘when you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he’”. We could say, the Pope added, that “Jesus ‘made himself to be serpent’; Jesus ‘made himself to be sin’, and took upon himself all of humanity’s filth, all the filth of sin; and ‘he made himself to be sin’; he let himself be lifted up so that all people could look at him, the people wounded by sin: us. This is the mystery of the Cross. Paul says: ‘he made himself to be sin’, and he took the appearance of the father of sin, of the astute serpent”.
In the sign of the Cross (4 April 2017) | Francis

Does he understand what St Paul was saying?

 

[Annie]

I am currently shaking my head again. I have no idea what’s going on.

Mostly, I wanted to say my spell check does not recognize Fr as an abbreviation for Father and changes it to Dr.

Humph! AI ):

 

[kyrie03]

Pope Francis on Tuesday, again discussed the Great Accuser.

The Pope brought up that it was also the people who yelled “crucify him”. Jesus then compassionately remained silent because “the people were deceived by the powerful”, Pope Francis explained. His response was silence and prayer. Here the shepherd chooses silence when the “Great Accuser” accuses him “through so many people”. Jesus “suffers, offers his life, and prays”, Pope Francis said.

Pope Francis at Mass: Jesus the icon of the meek and compassionate pastor - Vatican News

Pope Francis’ homily during Mass on Tuesday at Casa Santa Marta focuses on Jesus who drew near to people as he walked the streets of his world and as ...

www.vaticannews.va

The “Great Accuser” theme has shown up now 5-6 times in Pope Francis’ homilies.
I’m not certain, but it seems he is comparing himself to the Shepherd (Christ) who choses silence in the cries for “crucifixion” of the rabble who were “ deceived by the powerful, under the influence of the Great Accuser.

• Christ WAS innocent; are those implicated of covering up for McCarrick also innocent? Is this what Pope Francis is trying to tell us?
• Is he signaling he will remain silent and pray…and this is the best response to accusations that have been deemed credible by at least 25 bishops to date?

 

[bullish1]

There has been so much wickedness and yet, no public penitent reconciliation by any of the guilty. Until an investigation is done, I don’t put the Pope in that category. I really don’t know if the Pope is trying to compare himself to Jesus, but it would be a mistake. He may be able to pull off not talking about this, but the church militant are not likely to support that in great numbers. An attempt to do this will certainly result in a much smaller group of faithful and a large constriction in the willingness to support the church financially.

 

[Annie]

This is all just so weird.

 

[irenaeus1]

Slander, leaving the faith, slander, slander, slander and more slander.

Are you referring to when Pope Francis falsely accused the Chilean sex abuse victims of slander, while defending Bishop Barros?

 

[FishyPete]

You seem to have an issue with my Pope. I wont engage in arguments with you.

I stand by my Pope, the Chair of St. Peter, along with St. MICHEAL against this attack by satan.

I will reply no more to this conversation from whispers.