Pope Francis calls for civil union law for same-sex couples

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MikeInVA said:
it was definitely about civil unions
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We don’t know that.
It could mean creating laws to ensure people in close relationships can have the protections married people have regarding estates, medical decisions, taxes, etc, but not necessarily in a sexual relationship.
 
But can a person not give another that types of legal power without having to go into a civil union with them? Or is this only reserved for marriage and family?
 
Convert3 said:
It could mean creating laws to ensure people in close relationships can have the protections married people have regarding estates, medical decisions, taxes, etc, but not necessarily in a sexual relationship.
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Right.

1234567890
 
Polak said:
But can a person not give another that types of legal power without having to go into a civil union with them? Or is this only reserved for marriage and family?
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Not necessarily.

The state or federal government provides certain advantages to couples, i.e., people in a legally recognized relationship.

On hospital visitation, for example, you could maybe authorize a person to make your medical decisions. But, a hospital may have a “family only” visitation policy.

Also a state might have other advantages for couples in estate law or tax law.

On a federal level there are a lot of advantages that are reserved for married couples (Social Security, tax law, Medicaid, etc.). A big one is that a spouse can leave an unlimited amount of assets to their spouse without triggering an estate tax.

That used to be one of the talking points of the anti-gay extremists, that LGBT don’t need marriage or civil unions because they can arrange their affairs to obtain these advantages. Obviously they can’t. They can’t just say, “I designate this person is my spouse so they can get all my property tax-free.”
 
Civil Coexistence Law may actually be the broadest term.

A Civil Union Law would more than likely fall in as a subset of the above.
Convert3 said:
It could mean creating laws to ensure people in close relationships can have the protections married people have regarding estates, medical decisions, taxes, etc, but not necessarily in a sexual relationship.
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Exactly
 
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I’m certainly not saying I support Pope Francis’s approach, but simply trying to explain where I think he might be coming from.

And yes, I do share your concerns about the sanctity of the sacrament. (I assume you’re referring to the sacrament of Marriage?)
 
Jbrady said:
He gave his opinion on civil unions AND Donald Trump.
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No he didn’t. The Pope did not give those opinions together at least and as far as the thread is concerned.
The movie did.

But the thread isn’t about the movie.

The thread is about Pope Francis’s personal statement on civil unions and how he as a person favors those civil unions for homosexuals that happened to be re-featured on the same movie.

Even when the movie talked about the Pope and Trump, that was a proviso statement by the Pope saying IF ALL he (Trump) was concerned about was walls, etc. etc.

The Pope has talked about “a million” subjects, and probably dozens of subjects on the movie.

None of which (including President Trump) is pertinent to the thread topic.

Why not just let SantaFe answer for themself? My question was directly to SantaFe.
 
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StudentMI said:
You’re just really proving my point. You’re attempting to speak for gays instead of letting them speak for themselves.
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There are 71 countries where homosexuality (in various ways) is a crime. And eight provide for the death penalty for homosexuality (in various ways).

Persecution of LBGT people is a very real thing, and the Church should do a better job of speaking up for their right to exist.
 
I believe that the vast majority of the aforementioned countries are Islamic, Arab, and Asian.

Where the Church has no hegemony.

I think the Church is unlikely going around telling countries what to do when the countries have precious few Catholics already.
 
I think the Church has done a good job speaking up for their rights. Heck, it even took a lot of them in to the priesthood in order to protect them in the past.

Also, name me one Christian country, or Christian majority country, where homosexuality is a crime.
 
Polak said:
Also, name me one Christian country, or Christian majority country, where homosexuality is a crime.
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That’s probably because most “Christian countries” are largely secular now and a majority of their inhabitants don’t really consider homosexual behavior to be an especially bad thing anymore. But less than 20 years ago, homosexual behavior was still technically a crime in some states in the US and people were still being arrested for it occasionally.
 
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Anicette said:
The goal of civil unions is to compete with marriage and weaken it by offering an cheaper and less engaging alternative. It’s a step to prepare the population’s minds. But the ultimate goal is always complete equality, so with marriage, adoption…
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Which is exactly why I find Pope Francis’s words troubling. I dont see how civil union laws are any good. The “good” these laws may offer do not, in my opinion, outweigh the bad that they will cause. I’m glad that the the Church’s official position still goes against creating civil unions.
 
AlbMagno said:
Russia (and I think Poland is close to it 🤔)
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Incorrect on both counts. And no, Poland isn’t getting ‘close to it’.
billsherman said:
Poland is getting dangerously close to that, all the while claiming it is in keeping with its Catholic history. The Church should condemn this much more forcefully than it does
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The Church should not condemn anything Poland (by Poland I mean the government) is doing in relation to LGBT issues. As for LGBT free zones in the country, I suggest you do some actual research on what they are, and not just read a US media interpretation on it.
 
Trying2overcome said:
The “good” these laws may offer do not, in my opinion, outweigh the bad that they will cause.
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Recall that SSM is now widespread. In that context - can the existence of civil union laws do harm? Civil unions would be an improvement (in our eyes) compared with SSM. Of course, there is likely little to no demand for them. The gay community see them as 2nd rate and rejected them in the past.
 
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Respectfully, “I stopped going to Church because I thought the Pope was a coward” will not be a sufficient excuse before the Dread Judgment seat. Christ alone matters in this decision.
 
Polak said:
As for LGBT free zones in the country, I suggest you do some actual research on what they are, and not just read a US media interpretation on it.
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The EU seems to find that they are discriminatory. As do France and Norway.

Perhaps you can educate me on why these zones that on their face appear to be an attempt to declare that certain people aren’t welcome, somehow aren’t that. (Note: they aren’t Gay Marriage Free Zones, but LGBT Free Zones).

Also, Nigeria is 13% Catholic and 46% Christian. I think the Pope can speak toward their decisions to outlaw homosexuality.
 
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