Pope Francis calls for civil union law for same-sex couples

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I think it is worth bringing up David and Jonathan. It is a really beautiful story in 1 Samuel. It is never ever sexualized. David and Jonathan aren’t family, but they love each other.

David becomes very close friends with Jonathan (Jonathan is Saul’s son…Saul is King…Saul is in the meantime trying to kill David…David of course eventually becomes King). Jonathan and David make a covenant (1 Samuel 18:3), Jonathan protects David when he can, and David never kills Jonathan’s father Saul even when being given multiple chances. In 1 Samuel 20:41 Jonathan and David meet and they are kissing each other and weeping together. When Jonathan dies, King David raises Jonathan’s Son and Jonathan’s grandchild. Today we’d sexualize this relationship, and this is deeply sad. It was never meant that way.

So there is a beautiful holy Biblical model for this type of covenant.
 
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Ultimately, this comes down to the need for gay folks to have pastoral care as well. What is the Church supposed to do, ignore the fact that people who have chosen the lifestyle do have legitimate emotional and spiritual needs just like everyone else? Maybe even to a greater degree, given that what they’ve chosen puts them at a severe spiritual disadvantage compared to many others?

We won’t get those folks to join the Church and embrace the plan that God has for their lives by just sitting back and wagging our fingers.
 
BigBoom said:
Many, many people will take this to include sexual relations. The pope needs to do his papal duty to teach and clarify exactly what he means by this.
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I hope he makes it clear at some point, although to be honest that might not be this is formalised (if it even happens). Even the Anglican Church, that does allow same-sex unions, says both parties in such a union are to remain celibate (gay or not), so I would like to think the Catholic Church would demand at least as much.
 
Raxus said:
Ultimately, this comes down to the need for gay folks to have pastoral care as well. What is the Church supposed to do, ignore the fact that people who have chosen the lifestyle do have legitimate emotional and spiritual needs just like everyone else? Maybe even to a greater degree, given that what they’ve chosen puts them at a severe spiritual disadvantage compared to many others?

We won’t get those folks to join the Church and embrace the plan that God has for their lives by just sitting back and wagging our fingers.
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What different or additional pastoral care do you believe homosexuals need than everyone else?
 
Doesn’t this excommunicate the pope for saying this? This is going to cause a schism.
 
I came here because I saw another sensationalist title in the news.

I really hope a Vatican Official to make a clarification distinguishing between “civil unions” and “homosexual acts” in these days. The media is already making it seem like the Pope is approving homosexual relationships.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
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DlandFan06:
Doesn’t this excommunicate the pope for saying this?
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No, why would it?
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If this runs counter to church teaching, it would be heresy which would make the pope a public, manifest heretic and public manifest heretics are automatically removed from the church.
 
stpurl said:
Hmm. remarks in a documentary, and they might have been taken out of context, or need clarification, or be a translation issue, or something.
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Not likely as it is known this was Pope Francis’ opinion when he was Archbishop in Buenos Aires. This is likely right on the mark.
 
BigBoom said:
If this runs counter to church teaching, it would be heresy
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That’s a big “If” there.

I’m sure all those who already didn’t like Pope Francis already have a running list of his purported “heresies” and this will just be Number X on the list.

Bottom line is Pope Francis is staying Pope till he passes away, and everybody is just going to have to put up with it or leave.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
Nor do I see an issue with the Pope saying that gay people need pastoral care.
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Does pastoral care include upholding God’s design of creation as outlined in Genesis 1 and 2, and a call to repentance for sin? The Pope approving of Civil Unions essentially approves of same sex relationships which is considered a form of adultery.
 
I don’t see it as you do, but I’m not going to get into a debate about it on this forum where many posters already can’t stand the Pope and blame gays for everything. It will just end in tears or flags if I actually speak to the issue, so I decline. (This is true of many issues which I do not discuss on here, usually due to a past discussion ending in the aforementioned tears or flags.)

I pray daily for God to guide our Pope especially in speaking prudently. He was going along great there for a few months so I guess for whatever reason it was time to drop another bombshell.

As always: Fr. Mychal Judge, pray for us.
 
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My preliminary thoughts:

I don’t think Pope Francis is speaking as Pope; the aim of the documentary, it seems, was to discuss Pope Francis as a (private) person, not as head of the Universal Church.

As the article and another’s poster on the thread has pointed out, this is not new for Pope Francis as Jorge Bergoglio; he proposed the same thing as Archbishop of Buenos Aires (in fact, he actually proposed this as an alternative to gay “marriage” which he clearly opposed and hasn’t always opposed).

I would like to find out exactly what he has in mind for these ‘civil unions’ and the laws to go alongside them before jumping to any conclusions. As @Genesis315 said, these could potentially be beneficial.

Finally, whatever the case may be, it is clear that Pope Francis is not departing from the Church’s teaching on homosexuality, homosexual “marriage,” or the evil of homosexual acts.
 
This is just a bad, bad, statement by the Pope for a myriad of reasons. Besides the fact that it gives the impression that the Church supports these couples in their sin and is a grave scandal, what does this say about traditionally Catholic countries that don’t have any kind of gay marriage or recognition of civil unions for them? Should the Philippines pass a law to recognize civil unions and cave to the homosexual agenda? This stance just doesn’t make sense if the Church is truly against homosexual acts. It’s like the stand that Catholic pro-choice activists take in regards to abortion - I personally am against it, but I’m not going to stop others from doing so. It’s a hypocritical position.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
I don’t see it as you do, but I’m not going to get into a debate about it on this forum where many posters already can’t stand the Pope and blame gays for everything.
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Fair enough. My point though still stands. Pastoral care means speaking the truth about sin to bring sinners to repentance and Jesus Christ, while offering forgiveness on behalf of Christ to those who repent. When a pastor of any rank condones sinful behavior, that is not pastoral care. Let’s look at it this way, should a Pope, Cardinal, Bishop, etc., advocate for civil polygamous unions?
 
It is impossible for Church to go the “trajectory of then Church of England”; the Holy Spirit guides the Church, and for that reason we have certitude that no such thing will ever come to fruition.
 
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