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Robert_Sock
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Sometimes things have got to fall apart before things can be rebuilt in righteousness.
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Pope Francis claims global economy is close to collapse and describes youth unemployment rates as an ‘atrocity’ in damning message
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mikekle
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Well, the thing is though, there arent too many young people in their first job working McDs nowadays, whenever I go in there, I mostly see people in their mid to late 20s, and some even older, probably working 2 jobs, or cant find a decent job elsewhere due to the job market, things have changed in this regard compared to years ago, when all you would see at McDs is young 16-17 yr olds.
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ishii
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The free-market does have its flaws and limitations. But there is no other system in history that has raised the income level and standard of living for people the way the free market has. Socialism basically forces everyone to be equally miserable - except the ruling elite. In socialism there is no reward for initiative or risk taking. Everyone lives under the same misery - according to a brand new government plan. What we need to do is find out how to increase people’s access to opportunity. There is perhaps a small role for government to play in this: for example in the funding of schools, etc. But we need to be careful: historically the government has tended to make things worse. Since you brought up the Great Depression, recall that it was the very policies pursued by those in government - particularly Hoover and then to a greater extent FDR which prolonged the downturn and made life harder for those folks who had to deal with the economic woes. As Amity Schlaes puts it in her excellent book The Forgotten Man - “from Hoover to Roosevelt, government intervention helped to make the depression Great.” Fast forward to today and I have no doubt that the policies and lack of policies by both Bush and Obama have helped extend the stagnant economy we are currently in. Look at Obamacare, e.g.: even though it passed, there were exemptions for some groups. Key parts of it were delayed for political reasons. Its no wonder businesses are wary of investing in the future as they have no idea what kind of laws will be in place which will affect them.
You speak of “unscrupulous business interests.” I have much more faith in a businessman subject to the laws of the market to do things which will increase opportunities for people than in the faceless bureaucrat whose livelihood depends on the continuation of the problem the bureaucracy was created to deal with in the first place. I am all for making people feel uneasy. For starters why not ask those in government why the trilions confiscated from taxpayers and then spent on poverty programs actually increased the poverty rate? In other words I think you’re kind of barking up the wrong tree with your focus on “unscrupulous business interests.” You ought to be looking at the failure of government and want to make the bureaucrats squirm.
Finally I would appreciate it if you’d quit latching on to one point I make - such as:
And attacking me as if I said all those who are unemployed or seek help are lazy. I said no such thing. However, when the safety net becomes a trampoline (which has happened) then you have a problem in which inactivity is rewarded instead of inititiative.
Ishii
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MacBP
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When the subject of youth unemployment comes up I invariably hear that its the youth’s fault. If we weren’t so lazy, or entitled, or unwilling to do honest labor then unemployment wouldn’t be an issue! While it’s certainly true that some young people are lazy, entitled or adverse to manual labor, I do not think that this is true in general.
If you talk to most undergrads, the overwhelming emotion you get is anxiety, stress and fear. Unless you’re involved in one of the few, employable degrees (nursing, engineering,and maybe medical radiation), everyone knows that they are going to have a rough time finding employment. It’s not that liberal arts grads won’t do manual labor; many individuals would kill for a decent paying job at a factor or equivalent station. Unfortunately, for the most part, jobs like that just don’t exist. What remains is the minimum wage job.
Now, contrary to what internet commentators seem to think, plenty of university graduates find themselves doing their time in minimum wage. Plenty would like to but can’t even find work. Those that hold off on minimum wage jobs… well can you blame them? If the the goal is to find work to support yourself, pay down your debts, and move out of your parents house then minimum wage jobs won’t suffice. I think that many people put off minimum wage jobs in hopes of finding a real job.
In other words… young people want to work but they don’t possess the in demand skills. For many the choice is between working at a job that won’t support one’s needs OR waiting to find a job that will at the cost of unemployment.
But whose fault is it that young people don’t possess marketable skills? Shouldn’t they know better! Skilled trades are in demand and liberal arts are not… doesn’t that mean its a young person’s fault for choosing a useless and expensive degree over a cheaper and more useful one?
In one sense, you are correct. When you’re about to spend 80,000 dollars, the least you can do is do some research. On the other hand, I don’t think you appreciate a high school students environment.
I went to a vocational school in a blue collar mining town. If anyone was in a position hear about the wonders of the skilled trades, it would be me. I went through the academic/university stream of high school and I can’t recall ever hearing that I should consider college over university. It just wasn’t talked about. Not only was college ignored, but the high schools really did a good job at selling the university degree. The message was clear: get a university degree and you’ll get a decent paying job and a good life. No one bothered to differentiate between different types of degrees. Any degree would do!
Ultimately, we have a situation where anyone anyone with a modicum of academic talent is funneled into a useless university degree that will lead to unemployment. By then, student debt is so severe that they can’t go back and do a skilled trade. They do the best that they can with what they have, which is the most that could be said of any generation.
Am I saying the youth have no responsibility for the current unemployment situation? No, ultimately everyone is responsible for the choices they make. With that said, instead of stigmatizing youth as lazy or entitled, I wish people could see that this isn’t always the case.
If you talk to most undergrads, the overwhelming emotion you get is anxiety, stress and fear. Unless you’re involved in one of the few, employable degrees (nursing, engineering,and maybe medical radiation), everyone knows that they are going to have a rough time finding employment. It’s not that liberal arts grads won’t do manual labor; many individuals would kill for a decent paying job at a factor or equivalent station. Unfortunately, for the most part, jobs like that just don’t exist. What remains is the minimum wage job.
Now, contrary to what internet commentators seem to think, plenty of university graduates find themselves doing their time in minimum wage. Plenty would like to but can’t even find work. Those that hold off on minimum wage jobs… well can you blame them? If the the goal is to find work to support yourself, pay down your debts, and move out of your parents house then minimum wage jobs won’t suffice. I think that many people put off minimum wage jobs in hopes of finding a real job.
In other words… young people want to work but they don’t possess the in demand skills. For many the choice is between working at a job that won’t support one’s needs OR waiting to find a job that will at the cost of unemployment.
But whose fault is it that young people don’t possess marketable skills? Shouldn’t they know better! Skilled trades are in demand and liberal arts are not… doesn’t that mean its a young person’s fault for choosing a useless and expensive degree over a cheaper and more useful one?
In one sense, you are correct. When you’re about to spend 80,000 dollars, the least you can do is do some research. On the other hand, I don’t think you appreciate a high school students environment.
I went to a vocational school in a blue collar mining town. If anyone was in a position hear about the wonders of the skilled trades, it would be me. I went through the academic/university stream of high school and I can’t recall ever hearing that I should consider college over university. It just wasn’t talked about. Not only was college ignored, but the high schools really did a good job at selling the university degree. The message was clear: get a university degree and you’ll get a decent paying job and a good life. No one bothered to differentiate between different types of degrees. Any degree would do!
Ultimately, we have a situation where anyone anyone with a modicum of academic talent is funneled into a useless university degree that will lead to unemployment. By then, student debt is so severe that they can’t go back and do a skilled trade. They do the best that they can with what they have, which is the most that could be said of any generation.
Am I saying the youth have no responsibility for the current unemployment situation? No, ultimately everyone is responsible for the choices they make. With that said, instead of stigmatizing youth as lazy or entitled, I wish people could see that this isn’t always the case.
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ishii
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I depends on the location I think. In the inner cities I notice the workers are older. I would not presume, like you do, to know what the circumstances of the workers at McD’s are. I once took a minimum wage job for about 6 months in order to pay a few bills. It was my 2nd job so I was working full-time plus a part time job. If you had seen me perhaps you’d have jumped to the conclusion that I was working there because of the economy/job market when in fact I just needed some extra money. As I’ve said, the free-market system is not always fair or equitable. You have to stay on top of things - learn marketable skills in order to find a well-paying job. But I don’t know of a better system, do you?
Ishii
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ishii
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Very good and informative post, MacBP . I don’t think all youth are lazy. I do think that many have been sold a bill of goods that says if you get a degree you are set. That might have been true for a short time after WW2 in America - until the 70’s or so. But now the liberal arts degree does not guarantee anything except perhaps a teaching job. I think young people would do well to invest their money in a trade or skill that will be in demand and result in job opportunities. Also, business degrees, accounting, etc. are worthy pursuits. I think there is a mentality that to not go to university and spend all the money on tuition, room and board - is to miss out on “the college experience.” Many young people are pressured to think that anything short of the traditional 4-year college or university is to miss out or sell oneself short. High schools need to do a better job advising students on their options and giving them better advice. I graduated from college with a liberal arts degree. After graduating I found myself in a decent paying but somewhat dead-end (for me) job. One of my bosses apparently concerned about my future pulled me aside and told me I should go to a vocational tech and learn a skill. I thought she was nuts. Not wanting to become a welder, I quit the job soon after and travelled the world, doing everything from teaching to working as a tour guide. I worked very hard and pounded the pavement to find jobs - I was never out of work for very long. Sometimes I worked two jobs. I eventually settled on my current job but I am glad that I didn’t find a job right after college and settle in for the rest of my life. I don’t think that would have been as interesting.
Ishii
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hazcompat
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pacatholic.org/seeking-the-gateways-out-of-poverty/#
“Government spends nearly a trillion dollars annually on programs to fight poverty, yet there are still 1.6 million Pennsylvanians struggling to make ends meet,” said Representative Dave Reed (R-Indiana), chairman of the policy committee. “Clearly we must readjust our focuses.” Twelve barriers were identified: the breakdown of family support systems, lack of child care, the downturn in the economy, inaccessible health care, criminal records, financial illiteracy, inadequate education, homelessness, mental health issues, hunger, substance abuse, lack of transportation, and a “benefits cliff” where upward movement in an economic bracket results in loss off services before a family is able to provide for them independently. Identifying barriers that entrap families in poverty is the first step of the Empowering Opportunities: Gateways Out of Poverty initiative that seeks to establish effective and sustainable solutions to poverty in the Commonwealth. The report will inform the committee’s next steps of building partnerships among community organizations, educators, job creators, and state government; developing comprehensive solutions to help families transition out of poverty; and maintaining a long-term outlook that promotes progress and facilitates growth. The Gospel implores us to care for the poor. As long time advocates for policies that support those in need, the Pennsylvania Catholic Conference will be closely watching the work of the Empowering Opportunities initiative. We pray that the House Majority Policy Committee’s venture to go “upstream” will be fruitful in identifying effective gateways out of poverty. -
See more at: pacatholic.org/seeking-the-gateways-out-of-poverty/#sthash.mAHg2e0U.CF76aXvJ.dpuf
Peace
“Government spends nearly a trillion dollars annually on programs to fight poverty, yet there are still 1.6 million Pennsylvanians struggling to make ends meet,” said Representative Dave Reed (R-Indiana), chairman of the policy committee. “Clearly we must readjust our focuses.” Twelve barriers were identified: the breakdown of family support systems, lack of child care, the downturn in the economy, inaccessible health care, criminal records, financial illiteracy, inadequate education, homelessness, mental health issues, hunger, substance abuse, lack of transportation, and a “benefits cliff” where upward movement in an economic bracket results in loss off services before a family is able to provide for them independently. Identifying barriers that entrap families in poverty is the first step of the Empowering Opportunities: Gateways Out of Poverty initiative that seeks to establish effective and sustainable solutions to poverty in the Commonwealth. The report will inform the committee’s next steps of building partnerships among community organizations, educators, job creators, and state government; developing comprehensive solutions to help families transition out of poverty; and maintaining a long-term outlook that promotes progress and facilitates growth. The Gospel implores us to care for the poor. As long time advocates for policies that support those in need, the Pennsylvania Catholic Conference will be closely watching the work of the Empowering Opportunities initiative. We pray that the House Majority Policy Committee’s venture to go “upstream” will be fruitful in identifying effective gateways out of poverty. -
See more at: pacatholic.org/seeking-the-gateways-out-of-poverty/#sthash.mAHg2e0U.CF76aXvJ.dpuf
Peace
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Bubba_Switzler
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The greed explanation for youth unemployment fails the most basic test of causation: correlation. You claim that the economy “has lost its concern for the whole man” but, pray tell, when exactly did that happen? Greed is as old as mankind but youth unemployment is such a new phenomemon that it was unheard of when I was a youth looking for (and always finding) a job. And I can assure you that those who sought my employment were not any more caring of the whole person than employers today.
So Pope Francis has given us a bad explanation for a serious problem. So what?
Consider further: many in this thread have cautioned against attributing malice to his words. But stop and think, what is our beloved Pope Francis doing? That’s right, he’s attributing youth unemployment to malice, to greed, to a lack of concern for the whole person. He never says exactly who these evil doers are, of course, but the implications are clear enough.
I would expect that sort of thing from a politician but not a holy man.
This whole thing stinks to high heavans.
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Bubba_Switzler
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I had youth entitlement third on my list and I will defend it here.
Why would you not take the job you can get and look for a better one? If you can’t support your needs on a bad job how do you support your needs with no job? Are you on strike? Are you stealing in the mean time? Most unemployed youth get by on welfare of one form or another. I can’t imagine anyone in my day choosing to be on welfare rather than taking any job and adjusting our needs to the income we can earn, including those with families.
Sadly, you have hit on part of the problem here. And what is driving this? I’m glad you made a good choice here but many others have either chosen badly or been directed into bad choices by various means including “generous” student loans and social stigma of non-academic-skill employment. Students are not entirely innocent here but they are not the main cause of this.
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CrossofChrist
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What’s new is the degree to which individualism and greed exist in and permeate society and the world, not that they exist.
He’s saying the same thing as all previous Popes since Leo XIII.
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CrossofChrist
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I would assume he’s aiming his message at all who are entrapped in a liberal and/or consumerist mindset, rather than specific individuals.
Considering that liberalism has always been rejected by the Church, I don’t expect much else from the Pope.
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Bubba_Switzler
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Individualism is not new either. Nor is there the slightest evidence that they are worse than any time previous. If you are going to take up a pitchfork and join the lynch mob you should at least take a moment to be sure of your facts.
I never heard Pope Benedict blaming youth unemployment on greed and it was not a problem before that.
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Bubba_Switzler
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I assume by ‘liberalism’ you mean classical liberalism and not modern liberalism. Ah, but then how is that goint to help explaining something new? Classical liberalism has largely been replaced by modern liberalism, i.e. watered down communism, which the Church has actually rejected. What do you mean?
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estesbob
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So am I supposed to be for a higher minimum wage or lower youth unemployment? We cant have both.
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faithsmind
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Agreed, CrossofChrist-- but it is the degree to which the upper levels of greed have been enabled: a worldwide scale!
Baby boomers who have bought into the economy early with a major purchase, (i.e. home) and a precious job are barely even able to keep afloat. But the younger people simply are not able to enter in to such deep water. Companies simply cannot afford to hire new faces because they are faced with covering inflated taxes and materials. 1st world graduates are now competing with 3rd world skilled labor. International trade is out of our hands, guys. We’ve reached a point in international trade where the powers that be and the folks who print the money are the ones who call the shots FOR NOW. Not you, your fake votes, or your college degree. This is what Pope Francis is referring to. He has huge perspective of the goings ons of the upper crust. Things have gotten so out of touch that… yes, they will collapse.
My children are strong and beautiful… I am rich because of my faith and my children’s love. Treasure in heaven.
Baby boomers who have bought into the economy early with a major purchase, (i.e. home) and a precious job are barely even able to keep afloat. But the younger people simply are not able to enter in to such deep water. Companies simply cannot afford to hire new faces because they are faced with covering inflated taxes and materials. 1st world graduates are now competing with 3rd world skilled labor. International trade is out of our hands, guys. We’ve reached a point in international trade where the powers that be and the folks who print the money are the ones who call the shots FOR NOW. Not you, your fake votes, or your college degree. This is what Pope Francis is referring to. He has huge perspective of the goings ons of the upper crust. Things have gotten so out of touch that… yes, they will collapse.
My children are strong and beautiful… I am rich because of my faith and my children’s love. Treasure in heaven.
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Bubba_Switzler
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In the 1930s there was a tremendous economic collapse worldwide which was “solved” by a turn away from “greed” toward fascism and communism.
Let’s hope Pope Francis is not leading us down that path.
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ProVobis
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I see him just doing his job as Pope.
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ProVobis
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You’re right, we can’t. It’s just that the former is much easier to legislate unfortunately.
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hazcompat
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CrossofChrist
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Me too.
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