Pope Francis claims global economy is close to collapse and describes youth unemployment rates as an ‘atrocity’ in damning message

[CrossofChrist]

I assume by ‘liberalism’ you mean classical liberalism and not modern liberalism. Ah, but then how is that goint to help explaining something new? Classical liberalism has largely been replaced by modern liberalism, i.e. watered down communism, which the Church has actually rejected. What do you mean?

I mean classical liberalism, yes. I’m saying that we’re beginning to reap the fruits of where liberalism leads to–radical individualism that cares nothing for others so long as “freedom” isn’t impaired.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Is McD’s unable or just unwilling? We can and should have both.

So while Pope Francis is unwilling to point out the individual evil doers he is judging responsible for youth unemployment, there will never be a shortage of those willing to jump in and lend a finger.

Seriously, does anyone really believe that McDonalds is greedier today than it was 20 years ago?

 

[GEddie]

Is McD’s unable or just unwilling? We can and should have both.

Peace

The question is, are customers willing to pay 3 or 4 times more so that more kids can be hired at the higher minimum wage? I imagine not.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I mean classical liberalism, yes. I’m saying that we’re beginning to reap the fruits of where liberalism leads to–radical individualism that cares nothing for others so long as “freedom” isn’t impaired.

Classical liberalism is all but dead. It is not correlated with youth unemployment.

Youth unemployment is correlated with the demise of classical liberalism in favor of anti-greed modern liberalism. Youth unemployment is correlated with big government do-goodism.

One can debate which is more radical in its individualism but it makes no sense whatsoever to finger a model of human society that has passed into history.

 

[hazcompat]

The question is, are customers willing to pay 3 or 4 times more so that more kids can be hired at the higher minimum wage? I imagine not.

ICXC NIKA

Why does the increase in wages have to be passed on to consumers. How about reasonable profit?

Peace

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Why does the increase in wages have to be passed on to consumers. How about reasonable profit?

Do you have some evidence that McDonalds is earning an unreasonble profit today that it did not earn 20 years ago?

Or are you simply fingering McDonalds as a scapegoat for bad public policy?

 

[CrossofChrist]

Individualism is not new either. Nor is there the slightest evidence that they are worse than any time previous. If you are going to take up a pitchfork and join the lynch mob you should at least take a moment to be sure of your facts.

There is plenty of evidence, actually. Look at how low religiosity is among Europeans compared to even 50 years ago. There is nothing left that is able to preserve a spirit of solidarity among peoples. At least when individualism was at its beginning stages 200+ years ago there was religion that kept people from realizing where it leads to. Not that the Church failed to see, of course.

I never heard Pope Benedict blaming youth unemployment on greed and it was not a problem before that.

catholicnewsagency.com/news/the_economic_crisis_was_born_from_greed_pope_benedict_says/

Youth unemployment is a symptom of the present crisis.

 

[CrossofChrist]

Classical liberalism is all but dead.

on the contrary, its way of thinking is firmly entrenched in our society.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

There is plenty of evidence, actually. Look at how low religiosity is among Europeans compared to even 50 years ago. There is nothing left that is able to preserve a spirit of solidarity among peoples. At least when individualism was at its beginning stages 200+ years ago there was religion that kept people from realizing where it leads to. Not that the Church failed to see, of course.

Low religiosity is, indeed, a problem not only in Europe but also America. Youth unemployment is correlated with low relgiosity. If Pope Francis were making that connection it would at least pass the most basic test of truth, though there are other things which have grown in the last 50 years including, especially, government.

It is as likely that growing government is the cause of both low religiousity and youth unemployment.

Youth unemployment is a symptom of the present crisis.

Youth unemployment is a symptom of the present crisis of big government.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

on the contrary, its way of thinking is firmly entrenched in our society.

It was diplaced by modern liberalism in the 1930s. Modern liberalism has been the driving force of modernity for almost a hundred years now. Classical liberalism has been in retreat that entire time.

 

[hazcompat]

Do you have some evidence that McDonalds is earning an unreasonble profit today that it did not earn 20 years ago?

Or are you simply fingering McDonalds as a scapegoat for bad public policy?

McD’s is being used only as an example. My response was to post #54. I should have used XYZ corporation. So XYZ corp raises wages because they are able and it is the right thing to do. A great deal of attention from media causes increased revenues that are sustained by a positve corporate image. Prices remain stable.

Peace

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

McD’s is being used only as an example. My response was to post #54. I should have used XYZ corporation. So XYZ corp raises wages because they are able and it is the right thing to do. A great deal of attention from media causes increased revenues that are sustained by a positve corporate image. Prices remain stable.

Why don’t you give us an example of a company that was making a “reasonable profit” 20 years ago and suddenly decided to make an “unreasonable” profit by refusing to hire the youth.

I’m sorry to be such a stickler for facts but they are in very short supply here.

If McDonalds is an example, why not stick with it? If it is not then why not admit that it is not an example of what you are claiming? Simply hiding your accusation against McDonalds behind an “XYZ” is simply dishonest and evasive.

McDonalds is certainly bigger today than it was 20 years ago, and thus its absolute profit will be larger, but it does not follow that it’s profit margin is larger and that it has thus been somehow earning a profit by not hiring youth.

 

[seekerz]

The Pope is right, though it might not be obvious. One does not really need to be an economist - one just needs to read history (including OT history) to understand where we are today.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

The Pope is right, though it might not be obvious. One does not really need to be an economist - one just needs to read history (including OT history) to understand where we are today.

Could you be so kind as to refer us to the passage on youth unemployment in the OT? I didn’t realize that it was such a problem back then. I would surely like to read about the biblical history of youth unemployment so that I could better understand Pope Francis teaching on this.

 

[seekerz]

Could you be so kind as to refer us to the passage on youth unemployment in the OT? I didn’t realize that it was such a problem back then. I would surely like to read about the biblical history of youth unemployment so that I could better understand Pope Francis teaching on this.

I’m pretty sure we won’t find ‘youth unemployment’ mentioned in the OT - but the same is true for ‘capitalism’ and ‘communism’, yet the Church has spoken definitively on them.

That’s one. Next up (and this is the main theme of the comments, if you read the article) idolatory…pick your prophet, the message is the same: idolatry in a society precedes divine intervention to mete out justice, mercy and restoration. Old story, real simple; incredibly difficult to change it by human effort.

He said: 'At the centre of all economic systems must be man, man and woman, and everything else must be in service of this man.
‘But we have put money at the centre, the god of money. We have fallen into a sin of idolatry, the idolatry of money.’

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[Bubba_Switzler]

I’m pretty sure we won’t find ‘youth unemployment’ mentioned in the OT - but the same is true for ‘capitalism’ and ‘communism’, yet the Church has spoken definitively on them.

That’s one. Next up (and this is the main theme of the comments, if you read the article) idolatory…pick your prophet, the message is the same: idolatry in a society precedes divine intervention to mete out justice, mercy and restoration. Old story, real simple; incredibly difficult to change it by human effort.

That’s what I thought.

The cause of youth unemployment is idolatry of government.

Go read the OT.

 

[CrossofChrist]

Low religiosity is, indeed, a problem not only in Europe but also America. Youth unemployment is correlated with low relgiosity. If Pope Francis were making that connection it would at least pass the most basic test of truth, though there are other things which have grown in the last 50 years including, especially, government.

It is as likely that growing government is the cause of both low religiousity and youth unemployment.

I would say low religiosity is the cause of big government and youth unemployment.

Youth unemployment is a symptom of the present crisis of big government.

And big government (welfare state) comes from trying to fill the void left by religion. People want their needs met but only think in terms of material goods, so the “solution” is a benevolent bureaucracy. Of course, that doesn’t work though.

It was diplaced by modern liberalism in the 1930s. Modern liberalism has been the driving force of modernity for almost a hundred years now. Classical liberalism has been in retreat that entire time.

Both are still liberalism though. In the end, Christianity and liberalism (both classical and modern) both agree with the motto of the French Revolution (liberte, egalite, fraternite) but liberalism thinks that God must be abolished to achieve those goals, while Christianity says God must permeate all of society. All modern liberalism does is change the means to get there: instead of an unbridled market, use an unbridled government.

:twocents:

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don’t disagree with him that there’s a lot of greed, but I sure hope he’s wrong about the collapse potential.

Also, since it seems every country in the world makes at least AK-47s, mortars and RPGs, it’s not just the big economies who sell arms.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I would say low religiosity is the cause of big government and youth unemployment.

And big government (welfare state) comes from trying to fill the void left by religion. People want their needs met but only think in terms of material goods, so the “solution” is a benevolent bureaucracy. Of course, that doesn’t work though.

Entirely plausible.

Both are still liberalism though. In the end, Christianity and liberalism (both classical and modern) both agree with the motto of the French Revolution (liberte, egalite, fraternite) but liberalism thinks that God must be abolished to achieve those goals, while Christianity says God must permeate all of society. All modern liberalism does is change the means to get there: instead of an unbridled market, use an unbridled government.

Sorry, lumping classical liberalism into the French revolution is sloppy at best, misleading at worst. Historically, there were main two branches of the “englightenment”, one French, the other English. While there were some early French contributors to classical liberalism, it was the French Revolution which established the different path leading to communism, socialism, and modern liberalism as well as hostility to religion. The English enlightenment gave us the classical form of liberalism which was, at its worst, neutral towards religion (e.g. freedom of religion). So while modern liberalism is, indeed, waging a war against religion, classical liberalism never did.

 

[seekerz]

That’s what I thought.

The cause of youth unemployment is idolatry of government.

Go read the OT.

I have read and am reading it.

You need to listen to the Pope. He was talking about the consequences of idolatry of money. He is right.