Pope Francis criticizes Trump's 'zero-tolerance' migrant policy

[mythbuster1]

And President Trump had to ignore the courts in order to issue this executive order, which means it’s liable to be struck down in the next week.

I agree that the bishops have a duty to speak moral truths, but reason also dictates that the law does not compel the impossible. The notion of immediate and total nuclear disarmament violates the laws of physics. There simply aren’t enough nuclear reactors in the world to burn up the cores that quickly, and only by burning up the cores do you permanently get rid of a nuclear weapon.

 

[Saxum]

And as much as I hesitate to say it, it needs to be said - I miss Pope Benedict XVI.

I miss Pope Benedict XVI and still struggle to understand why he resigned. The excuse was his health but he’s still alive and he’s still writing. And Pope Francis isn’t in good health. I suppose it doesn’t matter now. We have Pope Francis and we have to make the best of a very confusing Vatican.

 

[Sachsen]

Good thing Mother Church has two millennia’s worth of tradition, history, and heritage for us to refer to or we’d be even more confused.

And of course, stalwart keepers of the faith to lead the way today in spite of everything.

 

[pnewton]

If sponsors could be recruited to provide housing, food, medical care for the refugees until they get on their feet and have been here in America for 10 years if necessary.

That is not a bad idea. Furthermore, I am convinced it would be economically viable. My only concern is that it is so economically viable it might become predatory, kind of like indentured servitude.

 

[pnewton]

And of course, stalwart keepers of the faith to lead the way today in spite of everything.

That promise is made through the Pope, not those self-appointed as more papal than he.

My memory is intact enough to remember a lot of the same stuff being said about Pope Benedict when he would release an encyclical, and St. John Paul before him. Americanism is not part of tradition. Everyone with an opinion second-guessing the Pope is not part of tradition. In this case, and I have asked this several times, if the Pope is so far off base, I challenge you to find even one bishop that has disagreed with the Cardinal Dinardo wrote for the USCCB, to which problem the Pope is lending his support.

If you cannot, humility would demand that one consider his personal understanding of what is moral might be wrong, despite his extensive theological education, and that of the Pope and every bishop that has said anything about this topic, might be right.

 

[Sachsen]

And who, pray tell, appointed you as the arbiter of who is humble and who isn’t? That’s not being humble now, is it?

American Catholics should by all means remain faithful to the Church, but not at the cost of their own country. It’s that simple, no need to complicate it.

 

[pnewton]

…which means it’s liable to be struck down in the next week.

If that doesn’t happen, will you at least consider that you might be mistaken about the whole issue, legally speaking?

 

[pnewton]

And who, pray tell, appointed you as the arbiter of who is humble and who isn’t?

American Catholics should by all means remain faithful to the Church, but not at the cost of their own country.

It is a common sense that the shepherd knows better where the wolf lives and where the cliffs are than the sheep. Humility is a balm for nationalism. The Church was here before the United States, and will remain after, and into all eternity. The United States will not.

“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you." Jesus

“Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul.” Peter

 

[philipl]

Progressives and liberals and been trying to the past 100+ years to turn the USA into (insert word here that trump called some other countries). They hate the USA and everything good about it. They also hate western civilization and every thing good it stands for. You just watch, within a day or two they will start demanding open borders.

 

[pnewton]

You took issue because I said America should limit non-European immigration

Consider this, if you will. You are basing your opinion, as we all do to a degree, upon your experience. It should be of interest that the past immigration reformers in the US (Reagan and GW Bush) were both from border states. You may have more experience with European vs. Islamic immigration, but if you disregard skin color, as true non-racists do, our situation is far more like that of Irish immigration. While Central and South America are not as Catholic as it used to be, it is still more Catholic than the United States.

I attend a parish that is largely immigrant, about a third. While they are assimilated, they are assimilating. We see in the news all the “Raza” marches from those new to the country. I see that by the second generation, many are flipping from the Spanish Mass to the English, inter-marrying, and assimilating quite well.

One difference with the US, is that we have maintained a strong Catholic presence, instead of being in decline like much of Europe. Much of this is from the spiritual influx of the immigrant, because it seems God always moves through the weaker of a society.

My own priest is only second generation from immigrants, 3/4 Irish, 1/4 Lithuanian.

 

[Alex337]

Rob2:

I live in Europe .

Have I missed something ?

What has happened ?

Mass immigration and mass islamisation. Empty Churches and full Mosques. Muhammad is now the most popular name in London. No-go areas in towns and cities for white people. Homegrown terrorism in UK Mosques etc etc

I lived in London and I loved going to the places with large Islamic presences for a very simple reason; they had icecream parlours that stayed open til midnight! Because they don’t drink (And neither do I) but still wanted a place to socialise you end up with dessert bars, some even had stocks of board games for the patrons to play.

It wasn’t some dystopian nightmare realm it was really fun.

 

[on_the_hill]

Ooops! It seems that all comments were premature.

What about our wonderful ex-President Obama, who separated children from families for e i g h t l o n g y e a r s…

Crickets.

Two wrongs make a right? if Obama did it and not enough people complained, then it’s ok if Trump does it. Right?

 

[Ignatius64869]

American Catholics should by all means remain faithful to the Church, but not at the cost of their own country. It’s that simple, no need to complicate it.

So you believe you ought to put your country ahead of the Church? Fascinating.

The Church is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic. Whether you like it or not, all of these immigrants are part of the one body of Christ. They are your brothers and your sisters. Our health as a Church depends on them. If they are not whole, we are not whole. Yes, we ought to be willing to give up our privilege in order to give others basic human rights, which is ultimately what the illegal immigrants are seeking. You are taking one line out of the Catechism about the right to govern borders and ignoring two millennia of Catholic tradition of welcoming the stranger.

Nationalism is disappearing, my friend, and that’s a good thing. We will be much better off once we realize we are all on the same team and that God is calling all of us to ensure every human being is treated with dignity and respect.

 

[Ignatius64869]

Good thing Mother Church has two millennia’s worth of tradition, history, and heritage for us to refer to or we’d be even more confused.

And of course, stalwart keepers of the faith to lead the way today in spite of everything.

Also, please make sure your tradition begins at the beginning of the Church. Pope Francis is an excellent model of the apostolic zeal that was present for the first four hundred years of the Church. One of the reasons Christianity grew so rapidly was because there were Christians waiting at the gates of the cities to welcome strangers because their faith told them that that was what they were called to do. Those strangers, seeing the witness of the Christians, often became Christians themselves. That is literally the Catholic tradition.

 

[ProVobis]

Not necessary if one considers Catholicism transcends borders.

And it does by definition.

 

[pnewton]

Nationalism is disappearing, my friend, and that’s a good thing.

I am not as optimistic as you are. I think this tendency is too much a part of our fallen nature.

 

[Dhc8_Type]

Seen my taxes go up to the point where we are considering selling our home and renting because we can’t afford to pay the school district property taxes anymore.

 

[Usagi]

Do you honestly think that, in the same situation, Pope Benedict would not have had harsh words about the current execution of U.S. immigration policy?

Pope Benedict and Pope Francis may have different communication styles and emphasize different aspects of the Faith, but if you look at the totality of what they have said and written they disagree on very little.

 

[Usagi]

Why is this issue “politics” and speaking out on abortion or gay marriage (also contentioous partisan issues in the U.S.) is not? Heck, the bishops have come closer to imposing specific political solutions (via voters’ guides and such) on the latter two issues than on this one. Indeed, people have taken them to task earlier in the thread for only pointing out our moral obligations and not offering specific political solutions on immigration.

 

[Usagi]

“Adopt the culture and traditions” within reason, surely. We should certainly expect people to follow our laws and respect everyone else’s freedom, but we can’t rightly demand that people give up their religion, their language, their styles of dress and cuisine. There will likely be a mixing of those things over the generations, as has happened with past waves of immigrants, but we want Americans of different backgrounds to enrich America, not to all become blandly, generically “American.”

Again, the example of past Catholic immigrants is instructive. Our spiritual (and in some cases literal) ancestors set up their own school system to keep from being completely assimilated into what was then a very anti-Catholic, Protestant-dominated culture. As late as JFK’s run for President, there were fears that a man with allegiance to a “foreign prince” like the Pope was not enough of a loyal American to serve in such high office. Yes, Catholicism and Islam are different in many ways, but the fears and arguments directed against Catholic immigrants in the past and Muslim immigrants today are almost identical. If anyone should not be falling prey to those fears, it’s we Catholics.