Pope Francis criticizes Trump's 'zero-tolerance' migrant policy

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So we threw them some crumbs. But in the Northern cities we discriminated against them like crazy. That’s why Irish Catholics began the parochial school system. The Protestant-controlled public schools didn’t want them to infect the pure Anglo-Saxon White Protestant children with their idolatrous religion and strange customs. Later, the Irish themselves, who were treated like dogs in the urban centers, even worse than Blacks in the North, became the victimizers against the Italians, who they thought would destroy the American Catholic Church. Jews, needless to say, were banned from all sorts of public jobs and establishments through the 1960s and even 70s, until a new wave of immigrants became the scapegoats, namely, Puerto Ricans. Finally, with the immigration and assimilation of many groups of Hispanics, the pressure shifted to the flood of Asians, who both Blacks and Latinos as well as Whites accused of taking over jobs and housing. And so it goes, with Muslims being the main targets of discrimination today. We NEVER seem to learn from history.
 
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They’re only regarded as “insolvent” until you need them later in life just to survive.
 
The Pope is considered infallible in faith and morals, correct? Is this not a situation that involves moral values?
 
My only thoughts are these threads on current events and social justice are going absolutely nowhere. Does anybody ever change their minds, one way or the other, reading these threads?
 
Augustinian said:
That’s not exactly true, at the turn of the 20th Century, American industry needed a lot of men with strong backs to dig coal and work in industry and actively recruited immigrants to fill all the entry level positions
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Islam also has an anti-Christian history which has been particularly violent over the last decade.
Islam also has a population of over a billion people with their own culture spreading over a significant part of the globe.
There is also the ‘justice’ of pilfering others property though the open ended welfare system.
There is also the reality that the west has the Left side of politics heavily influenced by past Soviet propaganda to be anti western and create a new ‘compassionate’ secular religion that will threaten western cultural strengths.
We also have technological realities that mean immigrants can continue to live apart from the host country to the extent that it can be a rival to it. This is especially dangerous given the first point.
 
I had no idea that many of the children have been taken away to various different states in the union (very secretly by the Trump Admin.) to then go through the channels for foster care! How apalling. Trump still has not given out instructions to border people on how to handle his so called executive order.

Aside, Donald always wanted to be a dictator and now we are seeing it right in front of our eyes. Don’t forget, his first wife Ivana told this in their divorce hearings that Donald always kept a book about Hitler next to his bedside. He read it every night. OMG, I almost forget. Then we have to look forward to his little boy actions /majestic military parade come this Sept. We see little bits of America as we once knew it being taken away.
 
Ooops! It seems that all comments were premature.

What about our wonderful ex-President Obama, who separated children from families for e i g h t l o n g y e a r s…

Crickets.
 
Moral values, yes. Leftist, Cultural Marxist values like the ones you seem to espouse, no and definitely never.
 
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I’m as anti-Trump as the next guy but we’re going to conclude he wants to be a dictator based on his reading a book (or a few books) about Hitler? I’ll even throw in that I believe he is of German ancestry. And that settles it even if Ivana was telling the truth? I don’t think so.

Now does Trump have a power lust and is he on the power trip of his life? Yes, I believe so. I also believe he thrives on power, fame, and excitement. It’s a personality issue with him. What will he do after retirement from the presidency? No more mountains to climb. Or will he stay on indefinitely? Tune in next week for another episode of…
 
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For Pope Francis, I’m quite sure this is a moral issue, not a political one.
 
Rereading what you said won’t make it more truthful or right, buddy.

And it’s not moral to undermine the integrity of a country for the sake of “immigrants” and children who cry puddles for the media cameras who really needn’t be there in the first place. Far from being moral, it’s madness.
Why do you want this?
 
If you had reread what I wrote, you would understand I was saying Trump is NOT a dictator just because he read a book or two about Hitler and is of German ancestry, even if his former wife’s testimony can be believed.
 
The Pope is Catholic in spirit and in action and is the closest thing to Jesus on earth that exists,so he will of course criticise something that is against the Catholic belief of treating people with dignity and “what you do to the least of thee you do to me” and I wouldn’t expect (or really want) the Pope to be any other way.

I’m sure he is not criticising USA for not wanting to take all refugees.
He is criticising the way it is being done.
Ie:it’s not humane to separate children from their parents or make them treated with or witness aggressive/excess actions by border control officers etc.
It is not humane or Catholic to house children in cages or make them lost in a foster care system and not allowed to contact their parents etc…
Children should not be punished or treated with neglect or without dignity due to the actions of their parents.

Even if this method “works” to stop people arriving,Catholics know that the ends never justifies the means and that it’s not justifiable to do a evil to produce a good result.

I am also concerned that these methods help us to depersonalise refugees.They are no longer seen as “Rosa”,a human with a story,like you and me,they are seen as just an “illegal”.
This is a very dangerous mindset that I would not encourage Catholics to cultivate.

That’s not to say that there aren’t very bad and dangerous people entering too.There absolutely are.
The answer though is not a black and white either accept all them and deny the dangers, or reject all of them and dehumanise them.
Other options might be to house the children in the prison with the parent (not pleasant of course but a better option then being ripped apart from families),deport the whole family,create better diplomatic relations with Mexico to discuss how to jointly solve the problem,government provide incentives to US companies to set up base in Mexico and hire Mexicans if the problem is economic,have more detailed and thorough interviewing processes for refugees to gauge their mindsets about culture,respect,crime,family values,mentalities towards women etc…to better gauge which refugees are the genuine ones vs which are the criminal/gang mentality ones etc and then deport the bad ones…
That’s just some of my ideas.Im sure other people have better ones.
 
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Any program to assess the mindset of illegal immigrants will result in scores of Leftists teaching the illegal immigrants what to say. It will mean less than nothing practically.

Any attempt to house children with accompanied adults will result the next day in cries from the Left that the children need schooling and proper socialisation. This will lead to further moral posturing to allow everyone out of detention such that we have the recent situation of people not attending court and simply disappearing into the population which will lead to more arrivals

Specifically setting up US companies of America in Mexico is using industry of one country to reward bad behaviour from another country. It also perpetuates the false Left notion that somehow America owes everyone else and government has a right to take things off America.

No one is dehumanising these people. We are talking about huge numbers of people, not only a few limited individuals. They are breaking the law and should be dis-incentivised of the notion they have a right to go wherever they want and take from others. In huge numbers they create very significant problems.

If the church wants to help then it needs to develop industry in all countries and promote participation, the rule of law, religious freedom, limitation of the state and work against corruption of powerful political families who use their position and wealth to counter this.
 
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abucs said:
If the church wants to help then it needs to develop industry in all countries and promote participation, the rule of law, religious freedom, limitation of the state and work against corruption of powerful political families who use their position and wealth to counter this.
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Exactly. This is the solution to the problems faced by migrants. The western nations and the Church can help the struggling regions of the world by encouraging investment, education, religious conversion, political stability. The solution is not to flood Europe with uneducated, welfare-dependent people who will be unable to support themselves. The danger is also worsened by the fact that these migrants have different religious views and a radically different culture. We need to encourage the cultural and religious development of the third world. This can be done without threatening the stability and existence of Christian Europe.
 
OK! What is the problem. USA is a shining light on the top of the hill. Statistics in USA: estimated population is 330 million. Debt 21 trillion.
A ship can hold so many passengers or it will sink. The Captain has a purse that is empty. We have homeless ppl on the street, we have homeless Vets. We have Opiod addicts on the streets.We have contaminated needles, that are exposed. Excrement on streets in some Calif. cities.
WE ARE NOT A SHINING LIGHT ON THE HILL ANYMORE!.
S.American ppl are mainly Catholic & religious more than USA. Most nations are OK. HONDUROS isn’t in the news. Dangers are MS 13. Human trafficking.(Its here,too) Unless being near a drug cartel or an unstable dictator, life can be sweet and simple.
So, ppl seeking asylum=from drug cartels! From corrupt Venezuela! They would come looking tired and in distress.
If you want this better life, you come legally. We have a good system. But our system can’t handle illegals, who are drawn to our system b/c it has medical care & plenty. That is not asylum. WE HAVE ACLU, WHO TELLS THEM WHAT WORDS TO SAY.
Honduras 1200 caravan was a coordinated group arranged by a L Progressive group. It provided water and travel up to the border to challenge our Pres on immigration. It was an invasion.They were well fed & clothed. Just strolling along. You saw on TV were the ACLU went past the border to prompt them. So theparents are arrested till case heard. Kids shouldn’t be brought on this trip. But, it was encouraged. Kids can’t go to jails…, OK! They go to clean, enclosed areas where they can be observed, fed, cleaned and educated. It’s like a big daycare.
These laws have been on the books since 2005(?) Definitely since Bush II. It was used. 2014 pics of kids in fenced enclosures, under Obama are seen. YouTube videos of Clinton and Obama sounding harder on immigrants than TRUMP! But, the RESISTANCE starts drama to rile up ppl to this horror. They are in better care than the long journey here from Honduras. Now, there is a bill for DEMS to sign NOW! But they refuse. They want to draw this out for effect. So, TRUMP SIGNS EO to bring families together in JAIL. But a judge doesn’t want children in Jail. What they think they will get, is a immediate release of 1200 illegals. NO NO NO!
Pls God , guide TRUMP TO get families together and send them back to Mexico till they can get legally admitted. Asylum is sought in the First Nation you cross that is safe.,We could give Mexico a stipend to help w illegals. Give $50.00 to each family. (maybe). We cannot afford this much population.The Balance of nationalities is out of Balance. Legal Latinos can’t get in…
Everybody blames POTUS…This is a treasonous activity by a L Progressive group to hurt its Pres and govt.
So God, Your children continue to be in trouble and continue to need You. Sort out the troublemakers and reveal them to us. Help Mexico work w POTUS to shelter these illegals till they can find legal entry. St. Michael protect POTUS & his family. Protect Your children from human traffickers & all Evil. In Jesus name
Amen

Tweedlealice
 
Yes I wish the church would get over its aversion to participatory capitalism and supporting business.

No other force has lifted so many out of poverty and that is inclusive of the church.

I do not say that lightly because I see the church has done a huge amount of good in the world.

If it allies with capitalism and breaks from the evils of Left socialism then there can be a bright future for not only the church but the millions of poor around the world who look to her.

Participatory capitalism takes time to cascade across a nation. Like the west it starts with many poor people working very hard for not much reward. But it has proven to be a compounding force such that the more people involved in wealth creation the more wealth there is and the easier it is to participate and create more wealth.

This :Left wing victim politics ideology is not only evil it is a destruction of what is good for society. It desires to divide people and play victim games for political power whilst making society worse.

Areas like Europe and America have built up so much from participatory capitalism that it can withstand this evil for some time, but it is a limited time.

In places like Venezuela the evil comes much sooner.
 
abucs said:
Yes I wish the church would get over its aversion to participatory capitalism and supporting business.

No other force has lifted so many out of poverty and that is inclusive of the church.

I do not say that lightly because I see the church has done a huge amount of good in the world.
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I agree. The Church has always promoted a form of capitalism that is sometimes called distributism. However, there are a segment of churchmen whose politics and economics are very marxist; these are the cardinals who constantly talk about the preferential option for the poor while they themselves live in mansions. They should realise that the preferential option for the poor is capitalism.

In fact, I wish the Pope and the Church would be very wary when speaking about politics. It would be far better for the Church if the Pope concerned himself with the salvation of souls. The Catholic Church is haemorrhaging members and shrinking across the globe and I’d like to see the Pope say more about it! It is time for Pope Francis to reaffirm the Faith and encourage conversion and penance. He should stay out of politics.
 
True that. It’s so easy for the Left to hijack and distort the Church’s message and intentions. I wish that the Pope would try to pander less to the mainstream media and be more of a good shepherd to us Catholics. And as much as I hesitate to say it, it needs to be said - I miss Pope Benedict XVI.
 
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