Pope Francis denounces ‘trickle-down’ economic theories in critique of inequality

[Ceil-1]

1 in 5 children go to bed hungry each day in America.

16 million children in America do not get the food they need.

62% of America’s teachers see some of their students come to school hungry each day.

Urban areas are termed food deserts, because there is no real food to be found. Some charities have repurposed ice cream trucks to bring produce into these areas, because there are kids that can’t even identify an apple.

You may not see hunger, but it exists. It may even be in your neighborhood. There’s a reason food pantries are struggling to keep up with demand right now.

I don’t know, but in a Public Health Nursing Neighborhood Assessment and through my practicum with a Master’s in Public Health Nurse at a school teeming with the above, there were certain common denominators:

a. no fathers
b. incompetent parenting
c. neglected children
d. plenty of public assistance, plenty of help from the school

Yes, it was a food desert, but, the government, with the help of private companies were doing their level best. People choose the junk foods. A store, between the crime, and the poor choices, could not sustain itself.

The problem with poverty in THIS country is cultural and moral. That poverty is what leads to the hunger and the want, and it is spreading in this country. Spreading very rapidly.

I wish our pope would stick to the spiritual side of things, and leave the worldly worries to the secular world.

 

[estesbob]

Okay, so those 16 million children going hungry each day in America, their problem isn’t a lack of food, it’s a lack of pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Got it.

So tell me why do we have an obesity problem among the poor?

washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/snap-child-obesity/

 

[johnnykins]

So tell me why do we have an obesity problem among the poor?

washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/snap-child-obesity/

Because high glycemic foods - which are cheap and tasty especially when fried and salted - tend to encourage obesity. That is, a cheap diet tends to be a poor diet.

 

[CrossofChrist]

Perfect post. With all due respect to the Holy Father, unless he is speaking of Latin American oligarchies only, it seems (note that: seems) that he is absolutely mistaken and rejecting the papal teachings of the last 125+ years.

Say he wasn’t citing only Latin American countries, where does his message reject previous papal teachings? IMO from what little I’ve read of his Exhortation it’s very much in line with Caritas in Veritate.

*Welfare projects, which meet certain urgent needs, should be considered merely temporary responses. * - Evangelii Gaudium 202

 

[Country_Gal]

Because high glycemic foods - which are cheap and tasty especially when fried and salted - tend to encourage obesity. That is, a cheap diet tends to be a poor diet.

Go to a supermarket in a poor neighborhood, and take a look into the shopping carts of people there. You will see chips, pop, junk.

For the same price as those foods you can buy quality produce. You can buy a bag of russet potatoes and butter. You can buy dried beans, hamburger meat, flour to bake with, rolled oats, cheddar cheese, the list goes on and on.

I know very well, I’ve lived below the poverty line with 4 kids. You can feed them a very healthy diet in America today.

If the government is going to do anything more, I’ll support Michelle Obama’s campaign to improve the diets of Americans through education.

 

[CrossofChrist]

Go to a supermarket in a poor neighborhood, and take a look into the shopping carts of people there. You will see chips, pop, junk.

For the same price as those foods you can buy quality produce. You can buy a bag of russet potatoes and butter. You can buy dried beans, hamburger meat, flour to bake with, rolled oats, cheddar cheese, the list goes on and on.

I know very well, I’ve lived below the poverty line with 4 kids. You can feed them a very healthy diet in America today.

If the government is going to do anything more, I’ll support Michelle Obama’s campaign to improve the diets of Americans through education.

When cafeterias require kids to buy healthy food, they just throw them away.

 

[Country_Gal]

When cafeterias require kids to buy healthy food, they just throw them away.

So, they obviously aren’t too hungry then. I doubt if Third World children would do so…

 

[alexandratm]

I don’t know, but in a Public Health Nursing Neighborhood Assessment and through my practicum with a Master’s in Public Health Nurse at a school teeming with the above, there were certain common denominators:

a. no fathers
b. incompetent parenting
c. neglected children
d. plenty of public assistance, plenty of help from the school

Yes, it was a food desert, but, the government, with the help of private companies were doing their level best. People choose the junk foods. A store, between the crime, and the poor choices, could not sustain itself.

The problem with poverty in THIS country is cultural and moral. That poverty is what leads to the hunger and the want, and it is spreading in this country. Spreading very rapidly.

I wish our pope would stick to the spiritual side of things, and leave the worldly worries to the secular world.

It’s worldly to want to make sure that children, in this country or any other, do not go hungry? Is it not spiritual to aid others? What Pope Francis is saying is nothing new. It’s been echoed throughout the ages, even by Pope John Paul II. How we treat the vulnerable in our society matters. It’s not worldly. Giving aid to those in need is profoundly spiritual - how else do you explain the parable of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25?

As so many have stated, how we treat the least of us matters. It’s not worldly to advocate for the poor - it’s Christian.

“Our society must make it right and possible for old people not to fear the young or be deserted by them, for the test of a civilization is the way that it cares for its helpless members.” ~Pearl S. Buck (1892-1973), My Several Worlds [1954].

“The test of the morality of a society is what it does for its children.” ~Dietrich Bonhoeffer

“A decent provision for the poor is the true test of civilization.” ~Samuel Johnson, Boswell: Life of Johnson

“The most certain test by which we judge whether a country is really free is the amount of security enjoyed by minorities.” ~John E. E. Dalberg, Lord Acton, The History of Freedom in Antiquity, [1877].

"…the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. " ~ Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey

“A nation’s greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members.” ~ Mahatma Ghandi

“Any society, any nation, is judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members – the last, the least, the littlest.” ~Cardinal Roger Mahony, In a 1998 letter, Creating a Culture of Life

“The greatness of America is in how it treats its weakest members: the elderly, the infirm, the handicapped, the underprivileged, the unborn.” ~Bill Federer

“A society will be judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members and among the most vulnerable are surely the unborn and the dying,” ~Pope John Paul II

 

[Darryl1958]

http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/wp-content/uploads/inequality-brazil.png

Are you saying there is nothing wrong with that?

Remove the luxury resort, does the picture improve for you?

 

[SuperLuigi]

The bottom 50% of this country pay little to no taxes and are the ones who make-up the vast amounts receiving government benefits. Just how much does the Holy Father suggest we should raise the tax level to prevent the middle class/wealthy from living comfortably while maximizing the amount given to those who do not contribute? Ever since Lyndon Johnson’s War on Poverty, this country has spent over 16 *trillion *dollars and the poverty rate has only decreased marginally.

France, Italy, Spain and Greece have been spending money like drunken sailors on social programs and now that the bill has come due, cannot afford to pay it. Is this what the Holy Father recommends? We were told that in the past 20 years, the extreme poverty rate in the world was cut in half because of a thriving economy. Apparently, a rising tide *does *raise all ships. Like it or not, rich people are the ones with the capital and the means to make things work. Hitting them with crippling taxes is not going to be the solution to eliminating poverty in the world. And I think it naive of the Holy Father to think that governments, who are the reason for the economic troubles of recent, are the ones to make things right. Pope Francis should keep in mind that his experiences with massively corrupt third-rate South American countries doesn’t extend to the entire world.

As long as the suburban middle-class votes democrat in elections, they can expect to subsidize both the rich, who have lobbying power even with magical Obama/Biden in office and wield it well, and of course the poor.

My sympathy for the American “homegrown heartland” and suburbia is razor-thin after they either sat at home or voted for Obama, and frankly they are getting what they deserve with ObamaCare.

I’m just not entirely sure the Chinese, Japanese and Brazilians are holding onto the dollar.

As for the Pope, if he can’t examine the issues holistically he risks making the same mistakes the USCCB did with the health care law.

It is naive, as you say, which is a weapon of the devil.

 

[Ender]

the Pope is attacking the ideology of capitalism and globalization)…

Is a “trickle-down” economy synonymous with capitalism? If it is, then, economically speaking, the pope’s opinion about the effectiveness of such an economy is simply incorrect. There may other valid charges one can make about capitalism but the creation and distribution of wealth is not one of them.

Nor does there seem to be a good argument to be made that globalization is a problem. In an article that appeared just yesterday (11/26) in First Things entitled “What’s Behind the Stunning Decrease in Global Poverty” the author makes this assertion: “A related hypothesis also posits that markets are a causal driver for the reduction in poverty”. That is, globalization is more of a solution to than a cause of poverty.

I really don’t know what to make of the comments in this Apostolic Exhortation; the statements about economics are genuinely puzzling.

Ender

 

[SuperLuigi]

Is a “trickle-down” economy synonymous with capitalism? If it is, then, economically speaking, the pope’s opinion about the effectiveness of such an economy is simply incorrect. There may other valid charges one can make about capitalism but the creation and distribution of wealth is not one of them.

Nor does there seem to be a good argument to be made that globalization is a problem. In an article that appeared just yesterday (11/26) in First Things entitled “What’s Behind the Stunning Decrease in Global Poverty” the author makes this assertion: “A related hypothesis also posits that markets are a causal driver for the reduction in poverty”. That is, globalization is more of a solution to than a cause of poverty.

I really don’t know what to make of the comments in this Apostolic Exhortation; the statements about economics are genuinely puzzling.

Ender

Capitalism is the best system.

 

[alexandratm]

Because high glycemic foods - which are cheap and tasty especially when fried and salted - tend to encourage obesity. That is, a cheap diet tends to be a poor diet.

Yes, plus again, food deserts. In some areas of America, there is no access to healthy foods. The only thing you can buy is boxed junk because it’s shelf stable and will keep in the tiny food marts that tend to populate these types of areas.

Then there are the issues of time, lack of education, lack of safe places for children or adults to go outside and play (movement), a lot of schools these children attend cut recess in favor of more class time to try and bump test scores, inflexible schedules for working parent(s) lead to less food prep time, activity time, and time to eat as a family, because of the low income, families cannot afford activities for their kids in safe areas like soccer or swimming.

I’m not advocating that culture or morals shouldn’t be addressed. But hunger and poverty exist today, not just in the urban areas, but in rural areas, and even in some of our suburbs. There but for the grace of God go I.

 

[CrossofChrist]

Nor does there seem to be a good argument to be made that globalization is a problem.

100% correct. Whether globalization is good or bad depends on what we make of it.

• On the one hand, there are signs of grave social and economic imbalances; on the other, reforms are being called for on various sides which can no longer be postponed in order to narrow the gap in the development of peoples. To this end, the phenomenon of globalization can constitute a real opportunity, but for this reason it is important to initiate a profound moral and cultural renewal as well as responsible discernment concerning decisions leading to the common good. A better future for all is possible, if it is founded on the rediscovery of fundamental ethical values. What is needed, then, is new financial planning in order to redesign development globally, based on the ethical foundation of responsibility before God and to the human being as God’s creature. * - Pope Benedict XVI

I really don’t know what to make of the comments in this Apostolic Exhortation; the statements about economics are genuinely puzzling.

I don’t know why that would be.

 

[CrossofChrist]

Remove the luxury resort, does the picture improve for you?

:ehh:

What’s your point?

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Here is another article challenging the pope on factual matters:

“ ome people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world,” reads the exhortation. “This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system.” [emphasis mine - JS]

Thus does the pope discount a wealth of data, years of economic theory, and practical experience which shows capitalism to be vastly superior to its alternatives at promoting higher standards of living for all classes of society, including the poor.

spectator.org/blog/56873/francis-occupy-pope

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Is a “trickle-down” economy synonymous with capitalism?

Why would you ask that? The term refers to the idea that tax breaks or other economic benefits provided to businesses and upper income levels will benefit poorer members of society by improving the economy as a whole. or, as the Pope stated, “assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting.”

 

[billcu1]

Since this is not an ecclessiastic matter does his words carry any weight. I heard he said that capitalism would lead to dictatorship. Dictatorship is in an economy. Just where do you find it. Government tyranny with socialism controlling resources or capitalism with others controlling resources. Tyranny with some controlling spiritual resources has been common too.

What is an “apostolic exhortation” anyway? Is that at the level of the gospels? If not what would be? An encyclical?

 

[Ender]

(Assertion)…16 million children [go] hungry each day in America
(Source of statistic) I believe the underlying source comes from Coleman-Jensen, A., Nord, M., & Singh, A. (2013). Household Food Security in the United States in 2012. Table 1B.USDA ERS.

These citations are from the summary to the source you provided.

• *Children were food insecure at times during the year in 10.0 percent of households with children. These 3.9 million households were unable at times during the year to provide adequate, nutritious food for their children. *
• Typically, households classified as having very low food security experienced the condition in 7 months of the year, for a few days in each of those months.

You can get to 16 million children affected by hunger only if the average “food insecure” household has four children, which is double the national average but the key thing to note is that hunger affects these children not daily but for “a few days” in just over half of the months. While we can all wish that no child went hungry, the assertion that 16 million go hungry every day is a rather gross exaggeration.

Ender

 

[april32010]

why would anyone care what a ayn rand devotee thinks