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gilliam
Guest
The Holy Father is a Christian
I think a lot of people forget what one looks and acts like.
I think a lot of people forget what one looks and acts like.
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Exiled_Child
Guest
:thumbsup:I agree absolutely.
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FollowChrist34
Guest
Or even better…Catholic?
I wonder if this is sort of an olive branch being tossed to US conservative Catholics…my guess is yes - a sincere one is my point - I am not jesting.
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Aletheian
Guest
Some people see the world through the prism of a left-right dichotomy and assume that just because someone isn’t part of one side, they must be part of the other one.
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Sy_Noe
Guest
He’s right. But he’s been Pope for 2 1/2 yrs and yet I’m still waiting for conservative Catholics and Catholic Republicans who consider themselves faithful to follow his lead and broaden the agenda and emphasize issues such as income inequality and climate change. I heard today one of the reasons he has tried so hard to make lapsed Catholics, and gays and women who have chosen abortion and the divorced, etc, to feel more welcomed is because he wants more people more engaged in the faith and going to Mass. So more will hear about these issues that are most important to him. Don’t get me wrong. Tears were in my eyes and I applauded him today as I watched on television as he stepped from the Papal plane and was so warmly greeted by our President and First Family. This man has touched the hearts of so many of us worldwide. I’ve heard about Pope John XXIII but am a bit too young to remember him. So honestly I hear Pope Francis speaking to my heart more than any other Pope has in my lifetime. I know my lapsed Catholic niece says over and over he is her favorite Pope.
I love this Pope and the fact he has tried to steer the agenda, the emphasis, and the tone of the faithful into a different direction. All of course without changing any of the Church’s teachings or doctrine. But I just don’t see how it works if conservatives don’t follow his lead and I’ve just yet to see it filter down all that well to conservative clergy or conservative laity. I see conservatives still emphasizing abortion and gays. There’s even a Catholic congressman boycotting the Pope’s address to Congress over global warming.
I love this Pope and the fact he has tried to steer the agenda, the emphasis, and the tone of the faithful into a different direction. All of course without changing any of the Church’s teachings or doctrine. But I just don’t see how it works if conservatives don’t follow his lead and I’ve just yet to see it filter down all that well to conservative clergy or conservative laity. I see conservatives still emphasizing abortion and gays. There’s even a Catholic congressman boycotting the Pope’s address to Congress over global warming.
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Lormar
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I know. I’ve been “profiled” by those on left more than I can tell you. Just because I think “x” therefor, all the rest should follow. It’s so frustrating.
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Songcatcher
Guest
Well said!
I hope everyone will truly open their hearts to the Pope this week. I love that he says things that resonate with the left one week and disturbs the right and then something that resonates with the right and disturbs the left the next week. That is how it should be!
No political doctrine has a lock on Christ’s teachings. When the Pope says something that makes any one of us disgruntled or uncomfortable, chances are we should look into our own hearts to see where we might grow. Pope Francis, more than any other religious figure I can remember hearing in my lifetime, seems to talk more like Jesus talked, emphasizing the things Jesus said we should emphasize.
I love this Pope. I honestly get tears in my eyes when I see him. There is something so special about him and it shines through. :getholy:
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_Abyssinia
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You question ‘conservative Catholics’ and ‘Catholic Republicans’ on ‘following his lead’ in regards to issues that you name, but I don’t see anywhere in your post you saying that you are waiting to see Liberal Catholics and Catholic Democrats, in comparison, do the same in regards to Pope Francis’ views on abortion, same-sex marriage and gender theory, if they disagree with Pope Francis on those issues.
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MarcoPolo
Guest
Orthodox Catholics can’t be compartmentalized as “conservative” nor “republican.” But to your comment, the issues you mention are not cut and dry moral issues as are things like abortion or the definition of marriage, for example.
Thus, “income inequality” isn’t even something the Church considers solvable or necessarily bad. In some cases instances, the inequality may be due to an injustice, but as a broad concept, no. For example:It must be first of all recognized that the condition of things inherent in human affairs must be borne with, for it is impossible to reduce civil society to one dead level. Socialists may in that intent do their utmost, but all striving against nature is in vain. There naturally exist among mankind manifold differences of the most important kind; people differ in capacity, skill, health, strength; and unequal fortune is a necessary result of unequal condition.* Such unequality is far from being disadvantageous either to individuals or to the community.** Social and public life can only be maintained by means of various kinds of capacity for business and the playing of many parts; and each man, as a rule, chooses the part which suits his own peculiar domestic condition. (Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum, 1891, #17)*So, since Pope Francis is a servant of the Church according to his own words, and that his social doctrine merely reflects the Church’s preceding teaching, he would have to give due respect to his predecessor on the same topic. In other words, the concept of “income inequality” is not automatically and objectively evil as would be, say, abortion. The factors of that inequality would need examination to identify if an injustice is occurring.
Climate change is similarly not a clear-cut issue of morality. It is first of all debatable as to the degree of human effect of the climate change. And if so, it is debatable as to what is the best solution, if the human influence is even “bad.” Once again, mere change in temperature is not an objective evil.
If one does not grasp the difference between objective moral issues like abortion versus nebulous social concepts, then one does not understand Church teaching at the outset.
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Sy_Noe
Guest
Thank you. I don’t profess to be a faithful Catholic but I see you’re Lutheran in RCIA and I truly do wish you the best along your faith journey. I’m kinda a sappy emotional old fellow anyway but I’m glad to know I wasn’t the only one who might have had tears in their eyes today.Well said!
I hope everyone will truly open their hearts to the Pope this week. I love that he says things that resonate with the left one week and disturbs the right and then something that resonates with the right and disturbs the left the next week. That is how it should be!
No political doctrine has a lock on Christ’s teachings. When the Pope says something that makes any one of us disgruntled or uncomfortable, chances are we should look into our own hearts to see where we might grow. Pope Francis, more than any other religious figure I can remember hearing in my lifetime, seems to talk more like Jesus talked, emphasizing the things Jesus said we should emphasize.
I love this Pope. I honestly get tears in my eyes when I see him. There is something so special about him and it shines through. :getholy:
God bless you.
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dsfgsadfgsdfg
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This is one of the best posts I have read. Thank you.
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Sy_Noe
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I’m pretty sure the Pope is an orthodox Catholic when he speaks about the things he speaks about.
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Sy_Noe
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Not that those issues are unimportant to the Pope and the faithful. Of course they are to be. But you didn’t see it because the Pope wants the agenda to be broadened beyond just abortion and SSM and gender theory.
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gilliam
Guest
Here is what he said:
A cardinal friend of mine told me that a very concerned woman, very Catholic, went to him. A bit rigid, but Catholic. And she asked him if it was true that in the Bible, they spoke of an antichrist, and she explained it to him. And also in the Apocalypse, no? And, then, if it was true that an anti-pope, who is the antichrist, the anti-Pope. But why is she asking me this question, this cardinal asked me? “Because I’m sure that Pope Francis is the anti-pope,” she said. And why does she ask this, why does she have this idea? “It’s because he doesn’t wear red shoes.” The reason for thinking if one is communist or isn’t communist. I’m sure that I haven’t said anything more than what’s written in the social doctrine of the Church. On another flight, a colleague asked me if I had reached out a hand to the popular movements and asked me, “But is the Church going to follow you?” I told him, “I’m the one following the Church.” And in this it seems that I’m not wrong. I believe that I never said a thing that wasn’t the social doctrine of the Church. Things can be explained, possibly an explanation gave an impression of being a little “to the left”, but it would be an error of explanation. No, my doctrine on this, in Laudato si’, on economic imperialism, all of this, is the social doctrine of the Church. And it if necessary, I’ll recite the creed. I am available to do that, eh.
catholicnewsagency.com/news/full-transcript-of-popes-in-flight-interview-from-cuba-to-us-78637
A cardinal friend of mine told me that a very concerned woman, very Catholic, went to him. A bit rigid, but Catholic. And she asked him if it was true that in the Bible, they spoke of an antichrist, and she explained it to him. And also in the Apocalypse, no? And, then, if it was true that an anti-pope, who is the antichrist, the anti-Pope. But why is she asking me this question, this cardinal asked me? “Because I’m sure that Pope Francis is the anti-pope,” she said. And why does she ask this, why does she have this idea? “It’s because he doesn’t wear red shoes.” The reason for thinking if one is communist or isn’t communist. I’m sure that I haven’t said anything more than what’s written in the social doctrine of the Church. On another flight, a colleague asked me if I had reached out a hand to the popular movements and asked me, “But is the Church going to follow you?” I told him, “I’m the one following the Church.” And in this it seems that I’m not wrong. I believe that I never said a thing that wasn’t the social doctrine of the Church. Things can be explained, possibly an explanation gave an impression of being a little “to the left”, but it would be an error of explanation. No, my doctrine on this, in Laudato si’, on economic imperialism, all of this, is the social doctrine of the Church. And it if necessary, I’ll recite the creed. I am available to do that, eh.
catholicnewsagency.com/news/full-transcript-of-popes-in-flight-interview-from-cuba-to-us-78637
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Sy_Noe
Guest
Thank you. And I admit I can be kinda a sappy ol’ fellow but glad to know I might not have been the only one with such tears today.Well said!
I hope everyone will truly open their hearts to the Pope this week. I love that he says things that resonate with the left one week and disturbs the right and then something that resonates with the right and disturbs the left the next week. That is how it should be!
No political doctrine has a lock on Christ’s teachings. When the Pope says something that makes any one of us disgruntled or uncomfortable, chances are we should look into our own hearts to see where we might grow. Pope Francis, more than any other religious figure I can remember hearing in my lifetime, seems to talk more like Jesus talked, emphasizing the things Jesus said we should emphasize.
I love this Pope. I honestly get tears in my eyes when I see him. There is something so special about him and it shines through. :getholy:
God bless you on your faith journey.
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johnnyc176
Guest
More to the point the Holy Father is Catholic.
That’s because there are some denominations that call themselves Christian but go against the teachings of Jesus and accept contraception, so called homosexual marriage and even abortion.
While there are liberal ‘catholics’ that also go against the teachings of Jesus we can always look to the Church that Jesus founded, the Catholic Church knowing that Christ’s teachings will not change.
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chero23
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But people like to throw a label. Oh he’s position is to the left or the right or he’s communist.
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JakeWI
Guest
I hate the label thing… so much that even I have stopped ‘labeling’ myself to any specific political party (not to mention if there is one thing super polarizing and anti religious, it would be politics these days). If there is a label that I like… that fits me… it is Catholic. Yes, I am typically on more of the conservative side… but purely Catholic in my belief system. It covers all that I believe to be true and right. Just as I believe our Pope is also saying.
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powerofk
Guest
Exactly. The problem is that Americans view world leaders who are not American through an “Americanist” lens. The Church’s teachings are neither Liberal, nor Conservative, nor Moderate, and yet they are all three at the same time, as well - depending on how you look at things. They’re the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself. The teachings of the Church cannot change - and so they are “conservative”. At the same time, following the teachings of the Church is the only way to be liberated from sin and death, and so they are “liberal”. And by practicing the seven divine virtues (generosity, zeal, true humility, temperance, chastity, meekness, and thankfulness), one is practicing moderation between the seven deadly sins and the seven deadly neuroses (the extreme opposites of the seven deadly sins). Yet if we were to look at the Church’s teachings on a grand scale, you realize that they don’t fit nicely on the Americanist “Left-Right” political spectrum. Sure, “Conservatives” often accept the Church’s teachings on the so-called “culture war” issues (abortion, same-sex “marriage”, euthanasia, etc.), while “Liberals” do not. But what many “Conservatives” don’t understand (or do, but refuse to accept), is that the throwaway culture is much more deep seated than the so-called “culture war” issues. And many things that “Conservatives” hold dear may also be contributing to the throwaway culture, making the “culture war” issues that much harder to combat. And it’s something we all have to pay attention to.
We each need to constantly ask ourselves the following questions regarding the throwaway culture: Is there any group of people that I believe are not deserving of basic human rights? Do I stereotype people? Do I say disparaging things about people behind their backs? Is money more important to me than God or my fellow man/woman/child? How do I consider children - are they people in their own right? Or do I consider them “commodities” or “accessories” - that those who want children are entitled to them, regardless of how the child is conceived, while those who do not want children have the right to kill any child conceived, for any reason? Do I consider people with disabilities full people, regardless of the disability? Or do I believe that they should be hidden away so that no one can see them? And finally, do I resort to name-calling, slander, gossip, or other disparaging comments about people with whom I disagree, struggle to get along with, or otherwise? All of these things are ways we contribute to the throwaway culture, whether we like it or not.
We cannot win the culture wars until we look into our own eyes and remove our own logs. And it’ll be a constant struggle. But we need to let Jesus transform our own hearts before He can use us to transform the culture. Without denying the ways that the “Left” has contributed to the throwaway culture, Pope Francis has pointed out the logs that might be in the eyes of those on the “Right”. And this has made some on the “Right” very uncomfortable, which is why some have called him a “Socialist” and a “Leftist”. This couldn’t be further from the truth. He’s simply been trying to remind us all how to be better followers of Christ.
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