Pope Francis: I Am Not a Liberal

[Adonia]

With all due respect Holy Father, you certainly are no conservative in the vein of your two predecessors. But I can understand you are but a product of where you came from where only a few people controlled everything and capitalism looked pretty bad to you.

Nonetheless, you are a good and holy man very much for the poor as Jesus would be. I wish you a good visit here to America and a safe journey back home.

 

[MarcoPolo]

This is one of the best posts I have read. Thank you.

You’re very kind, thank you.

 

[Sy_Noe]

With all due respect Holy Father, you certainly are no conservative in the vein of your two predecessors. But I can understand you are but a product of where you came from where only a few people controlled everything and capitalism looked pretty bad to you.

Nonetheless, you are a good and holy man very much for the poor as Jesus would be. I wish you a good visit here to America and a safe journey back home.

I guess you would have to say then the Holy Spirit certainly wanted someone at this time in Catholic Church history who was not conservative in the vein of Francis’s predecessors.

We are all products to some extent though of our experiences and where we come from. I come from the US and when I see a CEO jack up the cost of a pill from $13.50 to $750.00, and the income disparity facing this nation today, capitalism in this country today doesn’t look all that great to me either. I wish the Pope a fruitful stay and safe travels though as well. God bless him.

 

[CaptFun]

youtube.com/watch?v=FoqxYqTNKmU

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQeMC9WMNpOWfBHvRTUyMqhP1oE7GBU8Big-QLik66FKQTCUMrKwmcSFtH

:clapping: :yup: :dancing: :extrahappy: :bounce:

He means politically leftist I’m sure. He is fairly ***“liberal” ***with his time and “giving”.

 

[Adonia]

I guess you would have to say then the Holy Spirit certainly wanted someone at this time in Catholic Church history who was not conservative in the vein of Francis’s predecessors.

We are all products to some extent though of our experiences and where we come from. I come from the US and when I see a CEO jack up the cost of a pill from $13.50 to $750.00, and the income disparity facing this nation today, capitalism in this country today doesn’t look all that great to me either. I wish the Pope a fruitful stay and safe travels though as well. God bless him.

I agree, the Holy Spirit wanted something different for sure and such a thing makes us all think more critically about our walk in faith. Pope Francis brings wonderful gifts to the Church and he is solid on church teachings, but he cannot say that he is not a liberal and that’s okay if he is.

As for America today, things were supposed to get better under Obama, (at least that was what the Democrats said), but he hasn’t delivered. In fact, he upped the ante on "Crony Capitalism) and with him things have actually gotten worse. Stagnant wages, more people on some sort of government assistance, and millions who have left the work force. Not a good record at all in my opinion.

 

[JakeWI]

I agree, the Holy Spirit wanted something different for sure and such a thing makes us all think more critically about our walk in faith. Pope Francis brings wonderful gifts to the Church and he is solid on church teachings, but he cannot say that he is not a liberal and that’s okay if he is.

As for America today, things were supposed to get better under Obama, (at least that was what the Democrats said), but he hasn’t delivered. In fact, he upped the ante on "Crony Capitalism) and with him things have actually gotten worse. Stagnant wages, more people on some sort of government assistance, and millions who have left the work force. Not a good record at all in my opinion.

But how does one define liberal? Or conservative? I feel I am conservative in general, I believe in the right to be able to do with the money I work hard for as I please without being forced to pay for certain things I may not believe in. However, there is such a thing called morals, more specifically Catholic moral teaching that tells us we are here to help others. In regards to that, I do give money where I can even though I don’t make much. I will help where I can with the time and money I do have. That is the great thing about God’s freewill and his gifts, he gives each of us certain things to be able to help everyone together.

I hate the labels for this reason. I am purely Catholic, and what the Pope is emphasizing may be different than the other Popes, but that is the great thing about each unique Pope… they are different in what they emphasize. Pope Benedict did a lot with the liturgy. Pope John Paul II had his own strengths. Pope Francis is more-so concentrating on the world and things I personally agree need to be looked at as well… greed running rampant and Christian morals being tossed away, along with caring for things other than our wants right now. I heard somewhere a Pope is elected to be the Pope for a reason during that specific time. I believe he is here right now at the correct time.

 

[Latias]

I agree, the Holy Spirit wanted something different for sure and such a thing makes us all think more critically about our walk in faith. Pope Francis brings wonderful gifts to the Church and he is solid on church teachings, but he cannot say that he is not a liberal and that’s okay if he is.

As for America today, things were supposed to get better under Obama, (at least that was what the Democrats said), but he hasn’t delivered. In fact, he upped the ante on "Crony Capitalism) and with him things have actually gotten worse. Stagnant wages, more people on some sort of government assistance, and millions who have left the work force. Not a good record at all in my opinion.

I do not think Pope Francis is partisan, and neither he has endorsed the Obama administration nor his specific policies.

He is also not a communist, as he has said something that would align with Marxism-Leninism, Trotskyist, anarcho-communism, or left-communism.

I suppose the aggrieved conservatives are pset because he is not a zealous anti-communism, and he failed to adequately affirm Western foreign policy and saying a few remarks critical of American capitalism (in contrast to the capitalist European welfare state, which is not socialist).

Conservatives have no right to feel betrayed by Pope Francis, but they certainly would be expected to find some of his remarks unpalatable.

 

[Sy_Noe]

I agree, the Holy Spirit wanted something different for sure and such a thing makes us all think more critically about our walk in faith. Pope Francis brings wonderful gifts to the Church and he is solid on church teachings, but he cannot say that he is not a liberal and that’s okay if he is.

As for America today, things were supposed to get better under Obama, (at least that was what the Democrats said), but he hasn’t delivered. In fact, he upped the ante on "Crony Capitalism) and with him things have actually gotten worse. Stagnant wages, more people on some sort of government assistance, and millions who have left the work force. Not a good record at all in my opinion.

Things are better. They just aren’t yet as good as they could be. You get no argument from me though that wages are stagnant while corporations and CEOs are doing quite well. Lots of reasons though behind the problems that remain, not all attributed solely to Obama and Democrats. Obama has had a do nothing House of Representatives opposing nearly his every move for the last 75% of his Presidency. I personally don’t mind government offering assistance and playing a role to help others though. And then there’s a growing greed factor, one of the 7 deadly sins, I believe that has infiltrated capitalism in this country for decades now. Starting in the 1980s under Ronald Reagan and only growing. I think maybe it might be even a point the Pope is trying to make.

 

[Adonia]

Things are better. They just aren’t yet as good as they could be. You get no argument from me though that wages are stagnant while corporations and CEOs are doing quite well. Lots of reasons though behind the problems that remain, not all attributed solely to Obama and Democrats. Obama has had a do nothing House of Representatives opposing nearly his every move for the last 75% of his Presidency. I personally don’t mind government offering assistance and playing a role to help others though. And then there’s a growing greed factor, one of the 7 deadly sins, I believe that has infiltrated capitalism in this country for decades now. Starting in the 1980s under Ronald Reagan and only growing. I think maybe it might be even a point the Pope is trying to make.

And the Congress has every right to oppose Obama’s policies because they were elected by a majority of voters who also oppose Obama’s policies. The problem is, the Republican establishment has done nothing of late except allow Obama’s policies to continue.

Unlike you, I do oppose the government offering every kind of assistance mainly because they have limited constitutional authorization to do so. Taking money from us and giving it to whom they desire is not charity, but confiscation by the force of law. Jesus would never have supported charity by force, but he wanted true charity given freely by the individual.

 

[lax16]

And the Congress has every right to oppose Obama’s policies because they were elected by a majority of voters who also oppose Obama’s policies. The problem is, the Republican establishment has done nothing of late except allow Obama’s policies to continue.

Unlike you, I do oppose the government offering every kind of assistance mainly because they have limited constitutional authorization to do so. Taking money from us and giving it to whom they desire is not charity, but confiscation by the force of law. Jesus would never have supported charity by force, but he wanted true charity given freely by the individual.

Exactly! The Pope is reminding us that it is up to US to reach out to our neighbor in need, not a government program.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Another good thing is 18 million people now have health care coverage for when they are sick or to help with preventive care before they get sick or sicker thanks to Obama, Obamacare, and the liberal Democrats and no thanks to the Republican conservatives. 18 million more people. That’s a lot of sick or potentially sick people covered. Now I’m the first to argue it is not enough and more certainly need it and could be helped if only the Republicans who haven’t, would expand Medicaid in their states. Personally I go for single payer. To cover everyone from birth to the grave, a Medicare for all type of program. Jesus said care for the sick. And I’m sure the Pope wants the sick cared for too. He even resides on a continent which has countries, less wealthy than ours, that have managed to provide universal care. And Canada and other countries can but this country, the richest on earth, can’t? Individuals alone can not possibly provide for everyone’s healthcare needs, surgeries and prescription drugs, etc today, given the enormous number of people and costs. Along with all the other needs of the hungry, the homeless, those in need of clothing, and the thirsty. There’s enough to go around for individuals and faith based groups along with a role for government to all help out in Christ’s mission for us to serve the poor and the needy and the sick.

 

[Sy_Noe]

And the Congress has every right to oppose Obama’s policies because they were elected by a majority of voters who also oppose Obama’s policies. The problem is, the Republican establishment has done nothing of late except allow Obama’s policies to continue.

They were elected by a majority of people who bothered to vote in midterm elections. Obama was elected too and then even reelected inbetween those 2 midterm elections. But this thread about the Pope and his message. Not about Obama who was brought up after I spoke of the cost of 1 pill skyrocketing to $750 from $13.50 and about capitalism. And capitalism is something the Pope has also spoken about. But I won’t continue responding to Obama comments here. All I will say is he and the Holy Father seemed to be getting along rather well and enjoying each other’s company and presence. I even saw the Holy Father met Bo and Sonny Biden today and petted them. And he seems to nearly have a perpetual smile on his face. God bless him and I wish him a continued fruitful and safe trip.

 

[Sy_Noe]

And the Congress has every right to oppose Obama’s policies because they were elected by a majority of voters who also oppose Obama’s policies.

They were elected by a majority of people who bothered to vote in midterm elections. Obama was elected too and then even reelected inbetween those 2 midterm elections. But this thread is about the Pope and his message. Not about Obama who was brought up after I spoke of the cost of 1 pill skyrocketing to $750 from $13.50 and about capitalism. And capitalism is something the Pope has also spoken about. But I won’t continue responding to Obama comments here. All I will say is he and the Holy Father seemed to be getting along rather well and enjoying each other’s company and presence. I even saw the Holy Father met Bo and Sonny Obama today and petted them. And he seems to nearly have a perpetual smile on his face. God bless him and I wish him a continued fruitful and safe trip.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Obama has had a do nothing House of Representatives opposing nearly his every move for the last 75% of his Presidency.

Barack Obama & Joesph Biden had super-majorities for the first two years of their time in office; the republicans could not have stopped them. It was members of their own party who were critical of their agenda who stopped them.

And then there’s a growing greed factor, one of the 7 deadly sins, I believe that has infiltrated capitalism in this country for decades now.

Starting in the 1980s under Ronald Reagan and only growing. I think maybe it might be even a point the Pope is trying to make.

:ehh:

I’m not sure if I understand this comment, but I doubt the Pope will be talking about Reagan.

Ronald Reagan isn’t the root of greed in this country.

 

[philipl]

What he talks about shouldn’t be labeled as “left” or “liberal” but instead…humanitarian.

.

If someone is advocating that government “fix” these problems, then it becomes a political issue.

We are getting real close to the day where catholic will be told how to vote. All you have to do is read some of these threads which say if you dont agree with a certain position youre not a good catholic. It will soon become, if you dont agree and vote with these position, youre no longer catholic.

 

[SuperLuigi]

If someone is advocating that government “fix” these problems, then it becomes a political issue.

We are getting real close to the day where catholic will be told how to vote. All you have to do is read some of these threads which say if you dont agree with a certain position youre not a good catholic. It will soon become, if you dont agree and vote with these position, youre no longer catholic.

People need to have a good conscience when voting. I don’t always see that and some folks are clearly fighting their better judgement/conscience to vote against their values.

The excuses that Catholics and other religious folks make (ie it’s the GOP’s fault, racism, sexism, I want to make this or that friend/family member feel good) are obvious to me and perhaps to others.

So if one cannot fool me, what chance do they have of fooling God (which is impossible?)

There is some discussion about greed on here. How about the farmer or the poor person who says “I agree with the GOP on stopping abortion and euthanasia, and preserving marriage and religious freedom, but I’m voting Democrat because of my money”.

So evidently, it’s not just CEO’s who have issues with money, especially since most politicians of all stripes are for “helping” the poor, which would invariably mean these folks are selling out their values for no reason whatsoever, other than emotional ignorance.

 

[bilop]

I guess you would have to say then the Holy Spirit certainly wanted someone at this time in Catholic Church history who was not conservative in the vein of Francis’s predecessors.

We are all products to some extent though of our experiences and where we come from. I come from the US and when I see a CEO jack up the cost of a pill from $13.50 to $750.00, and the income disparity facing this nation today, capitalism in this country today doesn’t look all that great to me either. I wish the Pope a fruitful stay and safe travels though as well. God bless him.

This is a bit misleading.

The Holy Spirit does not pick the Pope. We hope the electors are inspired by the Holy Spirit, but they are perfectly capable of acting against Him in their choices. How else would you explain all the terrible Popes we had back in the day?

God Bless

 

[zz912]

I guess you would have to say then the Holy Spirit certainly wanted someone at this time in Catholic Church history who was not conservative in the vein of Francis’s predecessors.

The Holy Spirit promises to protect the Pope and Church from teaching error. The Church does not teach that the Holy Spirit selects the Pope.

 

[zz912]

Another good thing is 18 million people now have health care coverage for when they are sick or to help with preventive care before they get sick or sicker thanks to Obama, Obamacare, and the liberal Democrats and no thanks to the Republican conservatives. 18 million more people. That’s a lot of sick or potentially sick people covered.

Those numbers are fudged and it’s no where near 18 million. Try again

forbes.com/sites/scottgottlieb/2015/05/14/how-many-people-has-obamacare-really-insured/

 

[zz912]

Orthodox Catholics can’t be compartmentalized as “conservative” nor “republican.” But to your comment, the issues you mention are not cut and dry moral issues as are things like abortion or the definition of marriage, for example.

Thus, “income inequality” isn’t even something the Church considers solvable or necessarily bad. In some cases instances, the inequality may be due to an injustice, but as a broad concept, no. For example:It must be first of all recognized that the condition of things inherent in human affairs must be borne with, for it is impossible to reduce civil society to one dead level. Socialists may in that intent do their utmost, but all striving against nature is in vain. There naturally exist among mankind manifold differences of the most important kind; people differ in capacity, skill, health, strength; and unequal fortune is a necessary result of unequal condition.** Such unequality is far from being disadvantageous either to individuals or to the community.** Social and public life can only be maintained by means of various kinds of capacity for business and the playing of many parts; and each man, as a rule, chooses the part which suits his own peculiar domestic condition. (Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum, 1891, #17)So, since Pope Francis is a servant of the Church according to his own words, and that his social doctrine merely reflects the Church’s preceding teaching, he would have to give due respect to his predecessor on the same topic. In other words, the concept of “income inequality” is not automatically and objectively evil as would be, say, abortion. The factors of that inequality would need examination to identify if an injustice is occurring.

Climate change is similarly not a clear-cut issue of morality. It is first of all debatable as to the degree of human effect of the climate change. And if so, it is debatable as to what is the best solution, if the human influence is even “bad.” Once again, mere change in temperature is not an objective evil.

If one does not grasp the difference between objective moral issues like abortion versus nebulous social concepts, then one does not understand Church teaching at the outset.

GREAT post.

I think the biggest issue conservatives have with Pope Francis is that he always has time to criticize “unfettered” capitalism (which doesn’t exist in the world) but never seems to have time to criticize socialism, which is rampant around the world. He never seems to have time to criticize govt bureaucracy or waste. If he would spend even a few minutes balancing his pronouncements, he would find people more receptive to his political views.