Pope Francis' in-flight interview from Lesbos to Rome [addresses Amoris Laetitia & Schonborn]

[Brendan_64]

What you wrote above implies that God has no mercy whatsoever.

Nonsense. Mercy and judgement are not separate.

We simply cannot put God into that kind of a box.

Nor can we form God in our own image, according to what we personally deem as being ‘merciful’.

If someone accidentally walks on a dropped consecrated host because he or she didn’t see it, do you really think that this would bring down the full wrath of God on the person who didn’t see the dropped host on the floor?

That is entirely different from a situation, in this case no decision has been made to allow the person to step on the Eucharist. That is very different from a case where there might be some small amount of doubt about the validity of a first marriage, and the effectively saying, “Oh, go on then, go and receive Communion. Don’t worry about it, let’s be merciful”. That is tantamount to recklessness and is a case of individual pastors acting as if they can determine and dispense God’s mercy according to their own human will. That is not mercy.

 

[Emperor_Markus]

The Supreme Pontiff is not just another person that the media can speak too whenever it wishes. Whoever has the power should keep the Pope far, far away from reporters.

 

[twf]

Are you kidding? You can tell it pained them to be critical of what the Holy Father has said.

I agree. I saw the program too and it was clear that both guests were very deeply pained as they raised their concerns with the wording of the exhortation. They were very respectful towards the person of the Holy Father. I saw none of the venom or rebellion the other poster lamented. Since when are Catholics in open rebellion for simply criticizing the wording of an exhortation? Some Catholics treat the Pope as some sort of living prophet, hanging on his every word as the new Gospel. This is contrary to Catholic tradition and more akin to Mormonism. For the vast majority of Church history do you think the laity had any idea what the Pone was saying or doing? Not at all! The Pope’s traditional role is to maintain unity among the bishops. Modern mass media has led to a form of papal idolatry where even his sleeping arrangements are topics of great interest around the world.

 

[GodsGrace154]

Here:

It is not the most important decision. It was not the focus of the Synods, it was not the focus of the post-synodial Apostolic Exhortation. If it was the most important thing, then surely the synods and the Apostolic exhortation would have reflected this? They did nott.

Doctrine has not been changed. If doctrine had been changed then it would have been made clear. Change in Church doctrine is not implemented by the inclusion of footnotes that can be read in several different ways.

Hiding in the footnote? Hardly.

Vatican II was a series of 16 documents that were produced and signed. Nowhere in Vatican II is there any reference to some ‘active in the spirit’ thingy. That’s another case of reading into documents things that the documents don’t actually say (a bit like reding doctrinal change in Amoris Laetitia.

Oops. I missed the above.

I won’t argue. Time will show all. Nothing is hiding in footnotes. In some churches remarrieds (not living as brother and sister) are already receiving communion. The daughter of a friend of mine -divorced and living with someone, receives Communion every week. Apparently, the priest seems to feel that she is sincere in her faith and has a good conscience.

How could you say there is no change in doctrine? You remind me of a friend of mine who cannot accept what is happening.

Even if it’s on an individual basis and the reason is mercy DOCTRINE HAS CHANGED.

Did Jesus say there is to be no divorce?
Is divorce allowed?
If one is divorced and living with someone or remarried, can they receive communion??

NO. (this is what I was trying to get at when you joked about my post back there, re eating an hour before communion).

SO HOW COME NOW THEY CAN??

Because DOCTRINE has changed.

The letter seems to satisfy everyone. But everyone cannot be satisfied. The “legalists” are very unhappy.

I have no opinion. It’s beyond my scope.

GG

 

[pnewton]

Oops. I missed the above.

I won’t argue. Time will show all.

Ah, yes, but since when has humanity been prone to patience.

Even if it’s on an individual basis and the reason is mercy DOCTRINE HAS CHANGED.

Some people will believe this, but one thing the synod revealed is that the majority of bishops do not believe reception of communion by those who have been divorced is a doctrine of the Church. It is not something you will ever find defined as such. It is a conclusion drawn in a syllogism. (In my own estimation a syllogism in which definitions are not properly defined). But again, most of the bishops (at the synod) did not agree that this was a defined doctrine of the Church.

 

[GodsGrace154]

Ah, yes, but since when has humanity been prone to patience.
Some people will believe this, but one thing the synod revealed is that the majority of bishops do not believe reception of communion by those who have been divorced is a doctrine of the Church. It is not something you will ever find defined as such. It is a conclusion drawn in a syllogism. (In my own estimation a syllogism in which definitions are not properly defined). But again, most of the bishops (at the synod) did not agree that this was a defined doctrine of the Church.

Covnenient.

So up until now the church has been telling a lie?

My friends Anthony and Marie have been sitting at Mass and not receiving for the past TWENTY YEARS for nothing??

They find out now that it was all a mistake in terms?

It doesn’t matter what you want to call it. It was wrong before OR it’s wrong now.

GG

 

[pnewton]

So up until now the church has been telling a lie?

My friends Anthony and Marie have been sitting at Mass and not receiving for the past TWENTY YEARS for nothing??

They find out now that it was all a mistake in terms?

No, no, and no. I would suggest an evaluation John 21 is in order. Specifically, the response of Jesus to Peter’s inquiry about what was to happen to John. Peter had just been told of his life of suffering. Jesus let him know that not all have the same path and it is not our concern God’s path for others, only our own.

This is especially true when we remember that the Pope’s point is not that remarried will be able to receive communion. He did not say or suggest that. His point was that the priest needs to approach each person in their unique situation.