Pope Francis Must Resign: Archbishop Vigano

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This reads like a blog post. I genuinely didn’t know that bishops wrote like this. Maybe it’s an American thing (with the church being as partisan as the rest of American society).
 
wkj_123 said:
But honestly that’s the problem, there are no checks and balances. You can think that the wicked founding fathers set up such a terrible system of government all you want, but it’s exactly what I think the Church needs. If all the closed off, covering for each other, and covering up for the institution with shifting priests and Bishops and hiding crimes was replaced with full transparency and democracy the Church would be much better off in my opinion. We have tried it the other way and look where we are.
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In case you haven’t noticed, the “transparent and democratic” system of government with all of it’s checks and balances isn’t exactly in a better off position these days. It, too, is under severe threat.

Human beings, being corruptible as we are, can bring to ruin any system.

The American system does not have the Word of God behind it ensuring that the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

So, no, we are not in a “better off position” trusting a human institution as opposed to one underwritten by God.

There are checks and balances that are much more secure than any temporal ones we human beings might contrive.
As I looked, thrones were placed, and one that was ancient of days took his seat; his raiment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool; his throne was fiery flames, its wheels were burning fire. . . Behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed. (Daniel 7:9, 13-14)
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Another statement by a Bishop about Vigano’s testimony.


On Sunday, August 26, 2018, the Most. Rev. David A. Konderla, Bishop of the Diocese of Tulsa & Eastern Oklahoma, commented on his personal Facebook page concerning the eleven-page testimony given by Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò. The full statement, which included a link to the testimony, follows:

I count myself blessed that it was Archbishop Viganò who called me to tell me that I was appointed fourth bishop of Tulsa. The allegations he details mark a good place to begin the investigations that must happen in order for us to restore holiness and accountability to the leadership of the Church.

Now is the time for us to re-double our prayers for the church and for the victims of these crimes.

St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Bishop David Konderla

Commenting further, Bishop Konderla stated today, “As a people of faith, we must have the patience and prudence necessary to allow these allegations to be thoroughly investigated in order that whatever truth they may contain may come to light and justice be served.”
 
Francis might just have been surprised that everyone would be upset. After all, under St. John Paul II Fr. Marcial Maciel was protected, and people were already calling JP II “The Great” before he passed.
 
FirstFiveEighth said:
But it is a key part of the process of taking the threat seriously. Due process, if you will.
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But that’s not really legal due process. That’s rather an emergency protocol to deal with an emergency situation. Every emergency response team has protocols to deal with various threats. Such protocols are designed to protect lives. If a pilot has an emergency in the air (s)he has protocols to deal with it (the first one we’re taught is fly the airplane), that are designed to save lives first, and deal with non-pertinent issues later.

Due process would be the protection of the constitutional rights of the snitcher if it turns out he cried wolf, starting with the arrest and the reading of his rights, to retaining counsel to defending himself, to be being considered innocent until proven guilty.
 
Bishop Silva of Honolulu also asks for repentance and puification. http://www.hawaiicatholicherald.com...ess-and-transparency-in-disciplining-bishops/

We have all been horrified and saddened by the news in the past month or so regarding sexual abuse of clergy — even at the highest ranks — and cover ups of the truth. I prepared a letter and asked that it be posted today. Along with the letter is a much lengthier set of myreflections in an attempt to be as transparent about this whole sordid — and complicated — affair as possible. I wrote those documents, a testimony was issued on Saturday night, August 25, by Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano, who served as Apostolic Nuncio (the pope’s official representative) to the United States from October 2011 until his retirement in April 2016. In it he alleges a pattern of corruption, naming many high ranking U.S. prelates and Vatican Officials, including Pope Francis himself, even calling for the resignation of the Holy Father. Obviously this is a time of great crisis for our Church, and we pray that it will be an occasion for complete repentance and purification.

While this causes much anger and disillusionment to all of us, I ask you to be extremely careful not to allow Satan to achieve his desire of dividing and destroying the Catholic Church, which always remains the beloved Bride of Christ. Be strong in your faith, and share that faith in JESUS CHRIST with others, because he is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
 
Here is another original source document in which Vigano addresses and provides documentation to refute the “fake news” that he ordered the investigation into Archbishop Nienstedt to be quashed.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4788059-Nienstedt-English-Final.html

"These accusations – alleging that I ordered the two Auxiliary Bishops of Minneapolis to close the investigation into the life of Archbishop John C. Nienstedt – are false.

I received a letter signed by the two auxiliaries, falsely asserting that I had suggested the investigation be stopped.

I informed the Vatican Press Office in the persons of Father Lombardi and Mr. Greg Burke. With the authorization of the Substitute of the Secretary of State, then-Archbishop Becciu, Mr. Jeffrey Lena – an American lawyer working for the Holy See – went to the Congregation for Bishops where he found documents proving that my conduct had been absolutely correct.

Mr. Lena handed a written report exonerating me to the Holy Father. In spite of this, the Vatican Press Office did not deem it necessary to release a statement refuting the New York Times article.

The Nunciature also responded to Cardinal Parolin with a detailed report, which restored the truth and demonstrated that my conduct had been absolutely correct.

This report is found in the Vatican Secretariat of State and at the Nunciature in Washington, DC.

On January 28, 2017, I wrote to both Archbishop Pierre and Archbishop Hebda (who had succeeded Nienstedt), asking them to publicly correct the Griffith memorandum. In spite of repeated emails and phone calls, I never heard back from them.

August 26, 2018"

I encourage you to read his full statement And the letter he provided to back up his statement. DocumentCloud

A pattern is emerging…more cover ups to hide the uncomfortable truth.
 
Hope1960 said:
Again, this is making me feel even worse. If our Church is the One True Church, why isn’t God protecting her? Especially with all the prayers. If God answered prayer, one would assume He’d for sure, answer prayers to protect His Church and followers.
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God allowed Judas to betray Jesus. God allowed Jesus to be mocked, brutalized and crucified. Now is a time for the faithful to suffer.
And not only that, but we also boast in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us.
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tseleehw said:
For what it’s worth, he claims that the notion of one person having the power to tell the Pope to appoint a certain person (speaking about himself allegedly getting his position due to McCarrick) to a diocese as bishop is “absurd”.
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It’s not absurd at all. And it’s not really a question of the power to tell the Pope who to appoint. The issue is how much the Pope would follow the recommendations of McCarrick. Most leaders have trusted advisors. The Pope might know very little about particular candidates and rely solely on trusted advisors.
 
exnihilo said:
It’s not absurd at all. And it’s not really a question of the power to tell the Pope who to appoint. The issue is how much the Pope would follow the recommendations of McCarrick. Most leaders have trusted advisors. The Pope might know very little about particular candidates and rely solely on trusted advisors.
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The main trusted advisor should have been Abp Vigano. He was the man appointed by Pope Benedict, reappointed by Pope Francis. Pope Francis had never worked in the Vatican or diplomatic corp, he apparently relied on someone without asking around about him, because that man apparently shared Francis’ views. There seems to be a pattern of choosing to consult only with people who share your views.
 
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I would argue that the Pope HAS to rely on the recommendations of a trusted advisor. As the leader of a church spanning the entire globe with millions of members and practically every language on earth, there is no way he could have intimate knowledge of every candidate for Bishop. Now where that trust is placed is key.
 
From what I can tell, any news source who prints/broadcasts something you don’t personally agree with is “fake news.” It makes things a lot easier when you can just completely discount anything contrary to your opinion/feelings.
 
Gotcha. I think I misunderstood you then. 🙂
For the record I agree with/ have appreciated your other posts in the thread.
 
exnihilo said:
It’s not absurd at all. And it’s not really a question of the power to tell the Pope who to appoint. The issue is how much the Pope would follow the recommendations of McCarrick. Most leaders have trusted advisors. The Pope might know very little about particular candidates and rely solely on trusted advisors.
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Oh my! What is absurd is that Cdl Cupich would say it’s absurd for the Pope to be influenced. I think it’s absurd for a Pope (or anyone else) not to use trusted advisors for important decisions. How can he possible know 5,000 Bishops. This of course proves nothing other that Cdl Cupich is reaching a bit in trying to criticize Vigano.
 
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