Pope Francis Must Resign: Archbishop Vigano

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No bet, no. That score just kind of popped into my head. Seemed realistic.
 
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I’m not sure I understand the point you are trying to make? Are you claiming that Christ didn’t intend the Church to rule…to make judgments? Ministering/serving is a function of rulers who are called NOT to be served, but rather….to serve.
o_mlly said:
A third ministerial effect flows from the “hierarchy” effect: the objectification of the laity. If members are not “official” (recognized somewhere in the hierarchical structure) then they are without authority. Having no active ministerial role to play in the institution, the “non-ordained” or laity, become the passive objects of the ordained. The laity, perforce, assume a passive role as the people “to be saved” in the church.
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Is this your understanding or are you quoting from elsewhere? I have never heard this.
 
kyrie03 said:
I’m not sure I understand the point you are trying to make? Are you claiming that Christ didn’t intend the Church to rule…to make judgments? Ministering/serving is a function of rulers who are called NOT to be served, but rather….to serve.
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Read today’s gospel.
 
gracepoole said:
Dear friends: The most shocking aspect of last week’s coordinated attack on Pope Francis (thanks to Archbishop Vigano’s “testimony,” which is being discredited by the hour) is how many former champions of the papacy rushed to attack, condemn and attempt to delegitimize Pope Francis.
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gracepoole said:
All this darkness caused great pain, confusion and anger among the faithful, and among clergy and religious, and distracted us from the real work, which needs to be taken up again, of preventing abuse.
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Didn’t Vigano state he released the testimony to restore holiness to the Church?
To restore the beauty of holiness to the face of the Bride of Christ, which is terribly disfigured by so many abominable crimes, and if we truly want to free the Church from the fetid swamp into which she has fallen, we must have the courage to tear down the culture of secrecy and publicly confess the truths we have kept hidden. We must tear down the conspiracy of silence with which bishops and priests have protected themselves at the expense of their faithful, a conspiracy of silence that in the eyes of the world risks making the Church look like a sect, a conspiracy of silence not so dissimilar from the one that prevails in the mafia. “Whatever you have said in the dark … shall be proclaimed from the housetops” (Lk. 12:3).
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Did not Christ establish the Church to bring all men to holiness, to eternal salvation?

Should the Church’s concern be deflecting “vicious attacks” on a person by viciously attacking another?

Or is it time to investigate?
 
I’m Byzantine, we have a different Liturgical cycle. Can you please be more specific? I’ve never read this in the Gospels.
 
You phrase your starting question deceptively. The question should be worded “public or private”. Your use of the word secret is curious. Perhaps it was unintentional, perhaps wanting to imply something else?
 
gracepoole said:
I don’t think Fr. Martin has a problem with investigations.
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I just looked up Fr Martin:
On April 12, Pope Francis appointed James Martin, S.J., America 's editor at large, as a consultor to the Vatican’s Secretariat for Communications.
The pope created the new secretariat on June 27, 2015, which consolidated all existing Vatican communications offices and operations under one department.
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Seems that he is acting on behalf of Vatican communications to deflect what the Vatican considers attacks on Pope Francis by attacking Vigano.
 
tafan2 said:
You phrase your starting question deceptively. The question should be worded “public or private”. Your use of the word secret is curious. Perhaps it was unintentional, perhaps wanting to imply something else?
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Because “private” is just as ridiculous as “secret.” Private, secret, super secret…

A bigger question remains: did Vigano actually enforce these restrictions?
 
kyrie03 said:
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gracepoole:
I don’t think Fr. Martin has a problem with investigations.
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I just looked up Fr Martin:
On April 12, Pope Francis appointed James Martin, S.J., America 's editor at large, as a consultor to the Vatican’s Secretariat for Communications.
The pope created the new secretariat on June 27, 2015, which consolidated all existing Vatican communications offices and operations under one department.
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Seems that he is acting on behalf of Vatican communications to deflect what the Vatican considers attacks on Pope Francis by attacking Vigano.
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You’re offering an ad hominem attack against someone who pointed out that ad hominem attacks are problematic? Interesting.
 
If he enforced them, why was McCarrick not abiding by any restrictions? It was Vigano’s job to ensure he did.
 
??? You made a claim that Fr Martin supports an investigation. The burden of proof is on you. Heck, I never claimed he didn’t support them.
 
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