Pope Francis Must Resign: Archbishop Vigano

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How are we to work for reform? The changes in 2003 certainly made a huge difference at the parish level in the USA. But it seems obvious the problem at the seminaries is present here since then and is present in many countries. And there is no accountability at the Epicopate level. Now, we can say, it’s the Catholic Church, the Bishop runs things for better or worse, that’s the way it is. But that answer doesn’t seem quite adequate.
 
Things are not “much better now”. The clerical abuse and cover-up has NOT been adequately addressed. Sweeping it under the rug only makes the gigantic lump under the rug even more noticeable.
I pray he acknowledges his guilt, repents, and saves his soul.

But his numerous victims, whose lives he destroyed, haven’t been adequately addressed. Those in the hierarchy who knew of his behavior and promoted him anyway have not been held accountable. Without cleaning up the mess, odds are high the pattern will repeat
  • On August 14, the Pennsylvania grand jury report on clerical sexual abuse was made public.
  • On August 25, Ab Vigano released the testimony tracing lack of oversight of McCarrick that reached (according to Vigano- we have no way to know for certain) all the way to Pope Francis.
  • On Sept. 10, a statement from the C9 Council of Cardinals, suggested that “the Holy See is about to formulate any necessary clarifications” (regarding the testimony of Vigano)
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...-the-vigano-testimony--and-what-he-cant-12786

It’s been 3 long months since the scandals have been made public and increasingly disturbing revelations are being alleged. And what has been the response of the Church?
  • Silence
  • An occasional comment about the Great Accuser seeking to deceive and slander Christ
The bigger issue that has yet to be addressed is the loss of faith that began in the Church in the 60’s and has accelerated in the past several years. There has been no clarity on the issue of adulterous and/or Protestant spouses receiving the Body and Blood of Christ. Whether or not hell exists or if anyone even goes there for all eternity has become less evidently clear for the average Catholic. Are homosexual acts still considered disordered? Absolute truth and the need to conform our consciences accordingly, has been muted.

Apostasy abounds. Schism will result NOT because we talk about these issues, but because the Church is failing to act.
 
kyrie03 said:
Things are not “much better now”.
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At the parish level and as far as priests abusing minors, we are. At least in this country. Real reforms were implemented, as anyine who volunteers or works at an American parish can tell you. The Pennsylvania Grand Jury Report you mention as one of your points was almost exclusively about ilder cases.

The problem at seminaries is apparently still very much a real thing
 
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Ardent_Fire said:
Really? Sorry, but I just don’t buy into the belief that “everything’s fine.” The criticism and anger is justified, they still really aren’t addressing the problem and the resulting decline will continue and speak for itself.
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To know if things are better, total numbers must be used. Cherry-picking one parish is useless information. Furthermore, there is no causation here. The information could mean the Church does better when more children are sexually abused.
 
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I don’t think we need to cherry pick to see the condition of the church today. It’s right in front of our eyes. I believe we will eventually turn a corner but we have a long way to go. Both decline in church/sacramental involvement and abuse are rooted in spiritual failure. If anyone really thinks otherwise then I’m a prince from Nigeria and I have a business opportunity to share with them.
 
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Ardent_Fire said:
I don’t think we need to cherry pick to see the condition of the church today. It’s right in front of our eyes.
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What is in front of my eyes is vibrant growth. Go figure.

And no, not everyone that disagrees with your opinion on a topic is somehow foolish. That is a bad way to think.
 
I don’t expect people to agree with me on everything. However, I don’t view spiritual or moral decline as something subjective and a simple matter of personal opinion. That said I’m not going to sit here and spend extensive time arguing about it at this point, because to do so is not constructive or spiritually beneficial for anyone. So I’m just going to leave it at that. God bless.
 
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This isn’t progress. I will agree on the drinking beer though lol
 
You are very correct things are definitely not fine! The church is in a crisis in most places around the world. And pretending everything is fine does nothing to help resolve the crisis.
 
MapleLeaf1 said:
If Vigano’s claims are false , all of this of course is a moot point, and Pope Francis’ actions become a non-concern, and there would be no reason for him to even consider resigning.
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I would argue that even if the Pope is not responsible for condoning sex abuse, he has such a horribly divisive impact with regards the Church in USA, and other places, that it may be prudent to step aside at the present time.
 
Absurd. 10 years ago none of us ever considered a pope resigning. It happens once and people think it should happen because a pope has been “divisive”? Now it should be just a common event. I could not disagree more.
I have stated before, the only part if Vigano’s letter that I didn’t like was his call for the pipe to resign.

Oh, and there has been NO accusation that the Pope condined sex abuse. Don’t imply that.
 
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Pray for the soul of the Church - there are MANY of ‘our’ hierarchy who have been for all too long leading our laity astray - their agenda is not Jesus’ agenda or the long established truth/traditions of Mother Church. The Church is being besieged from without AND within by demonic forces - Satan knows his time is now rather short, and he feels propelled/forced to wage a much more open war - pray that the 'good men and women among the clergy and religious will have the moral guts {like our martyrs of the past and present], to step up to the plate and strike a home run for God - for those of us more into cricket, hit a 6 out of the grounds. Jesus will NOT let His Church fall into the hands of the demonic, this He has promised - a full on battle is in the imminent offing between good and evil, and I strongly suspect this will happen in my lifetime, and in the very near future - it will make ‘Noah’s Flood’ seem as nothing. Dear God, ‘Be Thou My Vision’, Blessed Mother and St Michael, come to our aid. Amen.

Oh, tafan2 - I don’t think even Michael Voris has accused the Holy Father of direct personal involvement in sex abuse, BUT it also regrettably cannot be claimed that Pope Francis has never by his actions, been a force of ‘encouragement’ and security/comfort/protection for those wicked prelates who have most certainly been involved in, and indeed are still involved in gross scandal and evil doing and promoting. Sins of omission are just as much sins, as those of commission, and it appears by his actions and inaction, the Holy Father has been complicit in BOTH. I was distressed to see and hear a video - available to be seen on the WEB, that was taken in St Peter’s Square of Pope Francis claiming to have known nothing about an issue that happened in Argentina under his watch, when it can be, and has been, proven he did know. We live in VERY DARK TIMES, and it is our duty to be aware of it. The Holy Father reinstated priests and senior hierarchy that Pope Benedict demoted for being involved in scandal very early on in his pontificate, men who are mostly still kept in senior office, and in some instances given influential positions amongst the young. The laity who are involved in youth work have to undergo checks - why then not these errant clerics? - Hmmn, just who is ‘protecting’ them? These days it seems we can only really trust the ‘true’ magisterium, those long established traditions, AND the words, works and promises of Jesus. ‘Put not your trust in princes’, seems very much an appropriate instruction for our times - even of all too many of the princes of Mother Church. We have all too many wolves in shepherds’ clothing, actively, or by negligence, leading their sheep/charges astray. I hope the diminishing numbers of faithful American Catholics are able to dig ever deeper into their pockets to pay the vast sums of money that will likely be asked for by Federal and State courts, and probably even RICO actions and claims. As I have said - we live in very dark times. BUT AS WE KNOW, IT IS OFTEN THE DARK THAT COMES BEFORE THE DAWN - THANK GOD!
 
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Oh, those clerics who were demoted by Pope Benedict, and then reinstated by Pope Francis, should have been laicised in my own opinion and the opinions of others, for their gross misconduct. Well it is said that the devil looks after his own - well at least to the point when they are no longer of use to him. PRAY FOR THE SOULS OF SUCH ‘EVIL’ PRELATES - their souls, unless they find the HUMILITY to MEA CULPA, MEA CULPA, MEA MAXIMA CULPA, before they draw their last breath and find themselves before Jesus, to account for their lives - will indeed languish in the deepest pit of hell for eternity - ‘what doth it profit a man, and especially a member of the hierarchy, if they wilfully do evil and refuse to repent’?
 
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I didn’t disagree with those who point out moral, and perhaps spiritual problems in some of the hierarchy. I’m just a little concerned about the eagerness for laity to confess and repent sins of persons other than myself.

A much higher percentage of LAITY appears to have severe issues, which in some cases would be sinful. I’m thinking especially about those who are divorced remarried, cohabitation, publicly supporting legal abortion, or many other areas, perhaps including pornography. I am not exempting me or my family.

I’m ok with a few services or homilies to address the issue of priests and bishops, but why are so few Catholics going to confession? Why isn’t THAT considered a scandal?
 
MountCarmel said:
Sins of omission are just as much sins, as those of commission, and it appears by his actions and inaction, the Holy Father has been complicit in BOTH.
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Do I have to say it again? Begging the question.

What can be claimed is that there is not much evidence that AB Vigano’s main point is even true. God have mercy on all that will impute sin rashly to Pope Francis. Let us let Jesus have his judgement throne back, shall we?

I apologize if you, or any other poster here actually knows more, through some sort of divine revelation, or perhaps being a confidant of the Holy Father.
MountCarmel said:
before they draw their last breath and find themselves before Jesus, to account for their lives - will indeed languish in the deepest pit of hell for eternity - ‘what doth it profit a man, and especially a member of the hierarchy, if they wilfully do evil and refuse to repent’?
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People must account for the sins they have committed, not sins assigned them by others throughout the world whose knowledge is gleaned from the internet. For those who have committed these most evil of acts, then they indeed have much to account for. All we can know are the sins that we have committed. That is what God asks of us. While not as destructive, even gossip and rash judgement are sins that can diminish the faith of others.
 
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pnewton - I will not argue, I will just let you absorb, if you can/will, what is going to pan out in the near future. I do however urge you and everyone else to pray with great vigour for the Church, and especially for the hierarchy, yes, even into the Vatican. God bless you, and may He open ALL our eyes and ears to the TRUTH.
 
MountCarmel said:
I do however urge you and everyone else to pray with great vigour for the Church, and especially for the hierarchy, yes, even into the Vatican. God bless you, and may He open ALL our eyes and ears to the TRUTH.
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This is so much more important. You have given the two most important things we can do. Pray and seek truth, at least as far as I can in my limited capacity as a layperson. I appreciate your wisdom.
 
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www.ncregister.com

Pope Francis Orders New, ‘Thorough Study’ of Archbishop McCarrick

In a statement, the Vatican says it is conscious that the new investigation may reveal choices not “consonant with a contemporary approach to such issues.”
www.ncregister.com www.ncregister.com

From the statement:

"The Holy See is conscious that, from the examination of the facts and of the circumstances, it may emerge that choices were taken that would not be consonant with a contemporary approach to such issues. However, as Pope Francis has said: "We will follow the path of truth wherever it may lead” (Philadelphia, 27 September 2015).’
 
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