Pope Francis on Divorce and Remarriage

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Corki said:
Here we go again. Pope Francis is the “good Pope” who will undo all of the “bad” of his predecessors. :banghead:

FWIW, Pope Benedict opened up the question of how to do a better job at reaching out to divorced and remarried Catholics long before anyone heard of Pope Francis.

And I am sure that an even higher percentage tell lies, cheat on their taxes or disrespect their elders. But the Church isn’t going to start telling them that that is ok either.

Unfortunately quite a few.

In my parish (and I hope most other Catholic parishes) no one is offered “full sacraments” if they are “married” outside of the Church. That includes those who divorced and re-married as well as those who get married civally or in another Church without dispensation.
There is no singling out or “treating like trash” of divorced Catholics. In fact, anyone who is divorced and who does** not** then attempt a second marriage is of course welcome to the Sacraments.

I don’t know where you live but no one is publicly shamed with a scarlet letter, even a metaphoric one. But that doesn’t mean that the reality of the first marriage can just be wished away. It IS a serious sin to renounce one spouse and take another. It IS a serious sin to attempt marriage outside of the Church. And no amount of “compassion” can change that. There are, of course, marriages that are deficient. That’s what tribunals are all about - to investigate and heal. What is not “ok” is for someone to decide that he/she when admittedly vulnerable, is also objective enough and learned enough in moral theology to determine his/her first marriage as flawed AND his/her freedom to remarry without any help from experts. That scares the heck out of me.
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You obviously haven’t been faced with divorce personally. Needing out so badly you would rather die and try to kill yourself eight times first because you DONT believe in divorce. But in the end you truly believe you hear from God that He has saved your life, wants you whole and happy, and has indeed brought you a new love into your life. It’s the easiest thing in the world to judge other people. To throw scripture at them from the sidelines and feel so superior. I know I used to be the same way. Then my life fell apart and I learned compassion. I understood how Jesus felt towards the woman caught in adultery.

So I ask you all… Who amongst you are without sin that feels so free to cast all these stones?

I can’t see Jesus’ compassion in this church on this blog. I am a new convert just starting RCIA… Where is the love of Jesus? So ready to cast stones are you. The internet in its anonymity is so easy to be brave and hurtful - everyone is an armchair theologian. But let me meet you in your pews… Would you cling to your stones so bravely, or just whisper behind my back? Or would you say nothing at all as you most likely do to all the other divorced Catholics in your pews taking communion and all the other “sinners” amongst you.

Shine that looking glass on your own soul for awhile.
 
Carajetzon, I agree some on these forums are so judgemental and superior. Where are the words of encouragement or understanding?
 
carajentzen said:
You obviously haven’t been faced with divorce personally. Needing out so badly you would rather die and try to kill yourself eight times first because you DONT believe in divorce. But in the end you truly believe you hear from God that He has saved your life, wants you whole and happy, and has indeed brought you a new love into your life. It’s the easiest thing in the world to judge other people.
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This is a perfect example of understanding only PART of the Church’s teaching on divorce. The Church does not say you must stay in a marriage that is dangerous to you physically, emotionally or financially. The Church wants you whole and healed.
To throw scripture at them from the sidelines and feel so superior. I know I used to be the same way. Then my life fell apart and I learned compassion. I understood how Jesus felt towards the woman caught in adultery.
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Actually, I didn’t “throw scripture” at anyone but since you brought it up, Jesus told the woman to “go and sin no more”.
So I ask you all… Who amongst you are without sin that feels so free to cast all these stones?
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No one is casting stones. But neither are we ignoring the plight of the divorced and pretending that their marriages didn’t really exist in the past and that they can just start over as if they had never been married. That is not compassion.

I ask you, how do you think the Church should deal with those who are divorced and who have contracted second (or third or fourth) marriages outside the Church? Most importantly, how should the Church do that in a manner that does not deny the permanence of the marriage bond?
 
Burdock said:
WThere is nothing in scripture that forbids contraception.
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The Catholic Church does not hold to ‘Sola Scriptura’, likewise, neither does the Bible itself state that all moral teachings are to be found in the Bible.
 
carajentzen said:
. To throw scripture at them from the sidelines and feel so superior. I know I used to be the same way. .
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It is very difficult, in fact I would claim, impossible, to determine the feelings of another from typed messages on an Internet board without the person specifically stating so. One might make inference, but that is not knowledge.

Given that, I haven’t seen where anyone has stated that they have felt superior to anyone else.

Absent such a claim, I think it would be discourteous to claim knowledge of another’s feelings when such information cannot be gained.
So I ask you all… Who amongst you are without sin that feels so free to cast all these stones?
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Can I ask what ‘stones’ were cast? Is promoting the teachings of the Church a ‘stone’?
 
Burdock said:
Where are the words of encouragement or understanding?
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If you define encouragement as support for accepting the teachings of the Church and living them out in your daily life, then I have found this board to be full of encouragement

If you are seeking support in the rejection of the Church and Her teachings, then yes, such support will be lacking.
 
Brendan said:
It is very difficult, in fact I would claim, impossible, to determine the feelings of another from typed messages on an Internet board without the person specifically stating so. One might make inference, but that is not knowledge.

Given that, I haven’t seen where anyone has stated that they have felt superior to anyone else.

Absent such a claim, I think it would be discourteous to claim knowledge of another’s feelings when such information cannot be gained.

Can I ask what ‘stones’ were cast? Is promoting the teachings of the Church a ‘stone’?
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Read the posts referencing what I’ve written it’s a long list.
Basically I’m an adulterer in your collective eyes
 
carajentzen said:
Read the posts referencing what I’ve written it’s a long list.
Basically I’m an adulterer in your collective eyes
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In the Church’s eyes, you mean.

And it’s not because of divorce. IF you are living with someone without the benefit of either a Sacramental marriage or a marriage with dispensation, you are living in a way that is inconsistent with the 6th Commandment.
 
Corki said:
In the Church’s eyes, you mean.

And it’s not because of divorce. IF you are living with someone without the benefit of either a Sacramental marriage or a marriage with dispensation, you are living in a way that is inconsistent with the 6th Commandment.
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Still, it’s hard for me to fathom. I get a legal divorce. Granted not a church annulment. My boyfriend and I are not having sex until marriage/ not living together. In a Protestant church I can remarry. In the Catholic Church we are I forgiven sinners, worse than murderers who can just go to confession! How is right, just or fair, even under the law?
 
Burdock said:
Your comment is very uncharitable.I suppose you think I should leave the church then. You know as well as I do that the majority of catholics use birth control.If they all left the church would be empty.
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No, it wouldn’t be empty! It would have faithful Catholics praising God!

The Holy Spirit guides the teachings of the Church so there is no mistake in the teachings!

If you follow the Truth you will be at peace! If you don’t you will always be restless!

If you choose to follow the Truth you will receive many blessings!
 
carajentzen said:
Still, it’s hard for me to fathom. I get a legal divorce. Granted not a church annulment. My boyfriend and I are not having sex until marriage/ not living together.
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Excellent!! This is worthy of praise.
In a Protestant church I can remarry
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The it would be a marriage in the eyes of a Protestant Church, the question would be, would be a marriage in the eyes of God.
In the Catholic Church we are I forgiven sinners, worse than murderers who can just go to confession! How is right, just or fair, even under the law?
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I don’t get that previous statement. Would you mind rephrasing or restating? Thanks!
 
carajentzen said:
Still, it’s hard for me to fathom. I get a legal divorce. Granted not a church annulment. My boyfriend and I are not having sex until marriage/ not living together. In a Protestant church I can remarry. In the Catholic Church we are I forgiven sinners, worse than murderers who can just go to confession! How is right, just or fair, even under the law?
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If you and your boyfriend are not having sex, you aren’t doing anything wrong. You claim you have been labeled as an adulterer. By whom? Not any Church authority.

If you were the cause of the divorce, then, yes, you need to go to Confession but otherwise, what’s the problem? You want to get married in the Church, right? You want to have a Sacramental marriage, right? Part of the process FOR ANYONE seeking to marry in the Church is to make sure there are no impediments to that happening. Go talk to a priest and work out any impediments, if there are any.
 
My boyfriend will be labelled the adulterer for 1) marrying the Protestant girl or 2) the new catholic that has been married twice that may/ may not be granted 2 annulments which are out of my control
 
Brendan said:
If you define encouragement as support for accepting the teachings of the Church and living them out in your daily life, then I have found this board to be full of encouragement

If you are seeking support in the rejection of the Church and Her teachings, then yes, such support will be lacking.
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Exactly my thoughts. The posters comments break my heart. Dealing with painful divorces in the past and the reality of Church teaching is not an easy cross to bear. As carajentzen posted, the annulments are out of her control. Others have posted about their spouses leaving them, abusive marriages, etc. Taking all of that emotional pain and trying to focus on what God wants for us, rather than what we want to take away that pain, is not an easy task.

I have not had to deal with anything so difficult, but I did have to change my thinking dramatically after my conversion. I was a contracepting, pro-abortion, pro-gay “marriage” (among other things) Catholic who couldn’t understand teaching on divorce, as well. I eventually had to recognize that my conscience could be in error and that I needed to understand and follow the Church. It was not an easy transition. My ego was huge.

My step-father cheated on his wife with my mother and remarried after his divorce. As he was Catholic, he was not able to receive. He accepted this cross, but I’m sure that the victims of adultery probably don’t mind that. After his first wife (only wife according to the Church) passed away, he asked me if I knew if there was a way for him to reconcile, and I told him to speak to a priest. I don’t think he did, and he died last year. I pray for God’s mercy, as I know he greatly desired to reconcile and certainly did plenty of penance for his sins.

I remain a sinner, of course. I fall way, way, way short of what Our Lord wants for me. That said, I don’t think I know better than the Church.

Praying for carajentzen and Burdock.
 
Murderers can go to confession if their sin is in the past and if they repent of it and resolve to mend their ways. Just as any other grave sinner. The remarried person who is intimate with his wife is not contrite unless they separate and resolve to regularize their situation.

Divorce is a wound to charity, but sometimes it is unavoidable, a necessity for moving on in life. Remarriage is a wound that is always avoidable and unnecessary. It is a conscious, active choice to break with the Church and the spouse to whom one has an existing bond.
 
Elizium23 said:
Murderers can go to confession if their sin is in the past and if they repent of it and resolve to mend their ways. Just as any other grave sinner. The remarried person who is intimate with his wife is not contrite unless they separate and resolve to regularize their situation.

Divorce is a wound to charity, but sometimes it is unavoidable, a necessity for moving on in life. Remarriage is a wound that is always avoidable and unnecessary. It is a conscious, active choice to break with the Church and the spouse to whom one has an existing bond.
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That’s true, but it’s also complex. If someone divorces and then remarries, has kids, and later considers what they have done. What then? Separate from their current marriage? I fully understand and accept Church teaching, but let’s not simplify things regarding the difficulty for those involved. A murderer’s act is done, not ongoing. Even someone with deep-seated same-sex attraction or a “living together” situation is not in the same predicament.
 
There is a tension that I notice. “I accept the Church’s teachings, but…” But. I am not married, haven’t been, and I don’t pretend to speak for married people. However, what can I say? But what? What further talk is there, doctrinally?
 
To saintAugustine, thankyou for your last posting. You have been one of the more understanding and helpful of people.Its nice to know we are in your prayers. You have given me much to ponder on thankyou.last 2 postings I mean.
 
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