Pope Francis 'tells sinner she should be allowed Communion' [Phony news story ?]

[Colorad007]

This IS a matter of faith and morals, though. And if he taught it to this woman, then.he actually believes that. It would then apply to the entire Church. Isnt thats whats required for “ex cathedra?” Of course if you disagree with his statement you’d say it was in error and not ex cathedra, but the critieria has been met if this news account is true. Any attempts after that would simply be sophistry and mental gymnastics to preserve the teachings.

How can a PRIVATE phone call be an infallible pronouncement when the call was intended only for the woman who got the call? An infallible pronouncement must be solemn, definitive, and official accirding to a Catholic Answers article on this topic. A pope’s charism doesn’t protect him from misleading people on the phone, and we have no idea if that is even what happened. I urge you to study more thoroughly the requirements of infallibility. This is not infallible. That doesn’t mean that you may shrug off anything that is not pronounced infallibly, but it does mean that you don’t need to have your faith shaken by a cotton pickin’ phone call.

 

[ProVobis]

In a second interview, overwhelmed by the international attention and the phone calls from around the world, she confirmed that she received “permission” to receive Communion by the Pope, but she complained: “this was supposed to be discrete, now I don't think I will be able to go anywhere now.”
Since Wednesday, Jaquelina has not been available for comments.

Since communion is a public event and the divorce is public knowledge, how long was this supposed to remain a secret?

This doesn’t add up.

 

[shelby_sun]

Definitely a sacrilege. In that case lets legalise murder.

Really, that is a huge jump. I hate to tell you people but I was born and raised around the Jesuits and have worked at a Jesuit school for twenty years and if the Pope actually said this to the woman, it wouldn’t surprise one bit.

I am shocked that in this day and age there are so many people that seem to want to be so ridged about “rules” made ages ago. The Pope is about bringing people closer to God which is what the Church should be about. For those of you who have been so harsh, I think the day will come when you are shocked with how big a sinner God think you are. We are all sinners, everyday.

Yes let start throwing everyone who is a bigger sinner that you out of the Church. Won’t be many left, but you will be there of course.

I think Pope Francis is more Christ like than any Pope I have seen and thinks about the world and those in the Church today rather than just blindly following rules of so long ago. Welcome to The Jesuit, they are awesome.

 

[Colorad007]

Read Ed Peter’s entry at Canon Law Blog. The Vatican is basically washing its hands of the matter. It is actually a pretty strong statement that distances the Church in her magesterial capacity entirely from whatever was said on the call. I doubt that the Pope was encouraging anyone to do anything wrong, but the point is that the Church dies not “do” doctrine by phone so the whole thing has very little to do with you and me and the rest if the Church at all.

I know that people believe that here the hand is tipped on the upcoming synod, but even that seems a little exaggerated to me. So you are telling me that the Church will go ahead and admit divorced and civilly remarried to Communion despite the fervent opposition of the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith and numerous cardinals? Really? The Pope is pope, and if should choose to speak infallibly on the matter, then so be it. But don’t get too worked up when Christ our Lord is still and always head of His Church.

I should add that when I say that the Vatican press office is washing its hands if the matter, it doesn’t mean that the Pope did anything wrong. It just means that the press office wants the world to butt out if something that us literally nobody’s business. So what if the Pope told the woing wrong? I don’t think he did–but so what? Are you asking for an inquisition against the man? Pray for his wisdom and let God deal with it. If he sins then his brother bishops should fraternally correct him. Write him a letter charitably if you feel so inclined. But moaning about how maybe he did something wrong based on media reports about what was maybe said on the telephone is fruitless.

 

[Dawnia]

Since communion is a public event and the divorce is public knowledge, how long was this supposed to remain a secret?

This doesn’t add up.

I think the part many seem to be missing and it’s not surprising that it gets glossed over. In the one report, the woman claims that the Pope told her to go to CONFESSION and then go up for Communion. Which is the proper order of things. She would have to give up her sinful ways and actually be sorry in order to be absolved.

Assuming that this is true, he put the ball in her court. It wasn’t do what every you want, it was more of a “go and sin no more” It seems as if she apparently just glossed over that portion and went straight to the go up for Communion part.

 

[EWTN_News]

(catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=29494) VATICAN CITY, April 24 (CNA/EWTN News) .- Media frenzy over an alleged phone call Pope Francis made to a divorce…

Full article…

 

[celestialhost]

I think the part many seem to be missing and it’s not surprising that it gets glossed over. In the one report, the woman claims that the Pope told her to go to CONFESSION and then go up for Communion. Which is the proper order of things. She would have to give up her sinful ways and actually be sorry in order to be absolved.

Assuming that this is true, he put the ball in her court. It wasn’t do what every you want, it was more of a “go and sin no more” It seems as if she apparently just glossed over that portion and went straight to the go up for Communion part.

But she wouldn’t be allowed the sacrament of confession if she was remarried, would she?

 

[Teelynn]

They’ve already done that:

Hmm… I wish someone would tell the couple involved it is only between them and the Holy Father. They themselves have NOT made it that way…they have brought this directly to the PUBLIC SQUARE. When it is put out there by this couple themselves, and what they have said or how it has been interpreted and reported by the media has caused confusion on Church doctrine, it is up to the faithful to speak out PUBLICALLY as well. I do think AGAIN it is REQUIRED. No one wants to know what went on between the couple and the Holy Father. What is NEEDED is clarification and reiteration of Church doctrine. The last thing this Church needs at this point in time is for confusion to tip the hat to dissent as has happened so many times since Vat ll.

 

[dans0622]

…Assuming that this is true, he put the ball in her court. It wasn’t do what every you want, it was more of a “go and sin no more” It seems as if she apparently just glossed over that portion and went straight to the go up for Communion part.

Hello,

According to the man, “Francisco told my wife that she was free from all sin, that she should go to communion, that she should go with peace of mind, since a divorced who goes (to Communion) is doing nothing wrong" (my emphasis).

That, to echo the local parish priest, is “absurd.” The whole story is a circus. I can’t say I’m surprised that it has gone this way…given the nature of the problem, possible solutions to it, and the fact that basically no one knows what is going on, either in theory or in practice.

Dan

 

[McCall1981]

Hmm… I wish someone would tell the couple involved it is only between them and the Holy Father. They themselves have NOT made it that way…they have brought this directly to the PUBLIC SQUARE. When it is put out there by this couple themselves, and what they have said or how it has been interpreted and reported by the media has caused confusion on Church doctrine, it is up to the faithful to speak out PUBLICALLY as well. I do think AGAIN it is REQUIRED. No one wants to know what went on between the couple and the Holy Father. What is NEEDED is clarification and reiteration of Church doctrine. The last thing this Church needs at this point in time is for confusion to tip the hat to dissent as has happened so many times since Vat ll.

Exactly. This family’s Priest had no problem commenting on this issue, and being perfectly clear:

"But the pastor of San Lorenzo’s church, Father José Ceschi, said late on Wednesday that the alleged “permission” to receive communion given by the Pope is “absurd.”

Speaking to local radio station La Ocho, Father Ceschi said that “first of all, I am very happy to know that the Pope called someone in San Lorenzo, the Pope surprises with these calls and people is so surprised, and that makes me happy. I do believe in the call, but what is hard to believe is that he gave her permission to go to Communion.”

“The Pope would never do that, is impossible. If he is coming from a previous sacrament and they are living together is absolutely impossible,” Father Ceschi told the radio station.

“What happens is that the Pope, like all bishops and priests, needs to be father, mother and teacher, always with an open heart, while telling things as they are.”

Speaking of his predecessor, who told Jaquelina that she could not receive Communion, the priest noted that “Father Sergio was right, if a previous sacrament of marriage is involved, the Church cannot go beyond what Jesus has taught.”

“If Father Sergio would have given absolution, it would have been like someone writing you a check for an empty bank account, is worthless!” he said.

“Again, I believe that the call happened, I just don’t believe the Pope would go over the head of the [local] bishop — it is absurd,” he reiterated."

ncregister.com/daily-news/doubts-increase-over-popes-reported-phone-call-on-divorce-remarried-communi/#ixzz2zpnGbfYW

 

[Dawnia]

But she wouldn’t be allowed the sacrament of confession if she was remarried, would she?

FYI - She isn’t remarried, her husband is. She would have to give up her sexual relationship with her husband (live as borther & sister) in order to go to confession.

 

[celestialhost]

FYI - She isn’t remarried, her husband is. She would have to give up her sexual relationship with her husband (live as borther & sister) in order to go to confession.

Oh yes, I misread that part. But her current marriage is an impediment to her receiving the sacrament of confession and reconciliation.

 

[mgoforth]

Really, that is a huge jump. I hate to tell you people but I was born and raised around the Jesuits and have worked at a Jesuit school for twenty years and if the Pope actually said this to the woman, it wouldn’t surprise one bit.

I am shocked that in this day and age there are so many people that seem to want to be so ridged about “rules” made ages ago. The Pope is about bringing people closer to God which is what the Church should be about. For those of you who have been so harsh, I think the day will come when you are shocked with how big a sinner God think you are. We are all sinners, everyday.

Yes let start throwing everyone who is a bigger sinner that you out of the Church. Won’t be many left, but you will be there of course.

I think Pope Francis is more Christ like than any Pope I have seen and thinks about the world and those in the Church today rather than just blindly following rules of so long ago. Welcome to The Jesuit, they are awesome.

So is morality changeable with the times then? If the “rules” can be thrown aside, then why have the concept of sin at all? I think the Pope is trying his best to reach out to people in a loving way, but he’s also said that he’s faithful to the “rules” of the Church.

 

[Dawnia]

Hello,

According to the man, “Francisco told my wife that she was free from all sin, that she should go to communion, that she should go with peace of mind, since a divorced who goes (to Communion) is doing nothing wrong" (my emphasis).

That, to echo the local parish priest, is “absurd.” The whole story is a circus. I can’t say I’m surprised that it has gone this way…given the nature of the problem, possible solutions to it, and the fact that basically no one knows what is going on, either in theory or in practice.

Dan

The man’s comment directly contradicts what the woman herself said. I am more inclined to believe early reports of the 1st hand account from the woman who actually spoke with the Pope over the husbands second hand knowledge that very well morphed into something that he wanted the Pope to say rather than what the Pope actually said.

Memory over time tends to morph and stories change with retellings. First accounts closest to the event tend to be the most accurate.

 

[McCall1981]

The man’s comment directly contradicts what the woman herself said. I am more inclined to believe early reports of the 1st hand account from the woman who actually spoke with the Pope over the husbands second hand knowledge that very well morphed into something that he wanted the Pope to say rather than what the Pope actually said.

Memory over time tends to morph and stories change with retellings. First accounts closest to the event tend to be the most accurate.

According to an Argentinian poster here on CAF, the local press in Argentina says it was the husband who talked to the Pope (contrary to what the American press says). This of course doesn’t jive with the statement that the Pope “forgave” the woman (what did he do, forgive her through the husband?).

So there is a lot of confusion.

 

[Dawnia]

Oh yes, I misread that part. But her current marriage is an impediment to her receiving the sacrament of confession and reconciliation.

Not really. The man she lives with is still married to his 1st wife. So she isn’t really married to begin with. She would have to end any type of sexual relationship with him before she could receive confession.

 

[patsa]

FACT: It has since been confirmed by the Vatican that the call did indeed happen. However, Pope Francis won’t deny or confirm the details of the conversation because “it is private.”

MY TAKE: Personally, I don’t doubt that our pope said what the women who married a divorced man claims he said. From what I hear the Church hands out annulments pretty easily… and so I’m guessing would probably give one to this man if he applied for it.* It wouldn’t surprise me if our Pope was just a step ahead and considered this.* He doesn’t strike me as the legalistic type who would be like “well, your husband needs to be granted an official annulment before you can receive communion.” He spoke to the women, heard her case, probably prayed about it before he called her, and came to the conclusion that the husband’s first marriage qualified for what the Church would pass as an annulment. Nonetheless, he was looking at this case in an individual basis, I am sure. This does not mean the Church will just do away with annulments and condone remarriages in general, neither does this mean our pope believes this should happen.

POPE FRANCIS: Either way, I love the way Pope Francis seems to look at the bigger picture in things. Like with homosexuality, for example… I love that while he still confirmed Church teaching on this, he went on to talk about how we should still be compassionate and kind and humble towards gays. I think many of our Church leaders have a habit of just robotically reciting the rules and then leaving it at that without addressing any sort of humanity. The media will twist and exaggerate the pope’s words, but that would happen regardless of what the pope said or didn’t say. Perhaps we should stop worrying so much about what the media says and how outsiders may view us. Our Church is so much bigger than that, and it’s a waste of time to worry about something as earthly and materialistic as what the main stream media is reporting about us.

WHAT US CATHOLICS SHOULD DO: Stay out of it. Don’t worry about it. Don’t get upset over it. He’s our pope, and is much holier, much wiser, and much closer to Jesus than any of us. Let’s humble ourselves and have a little faith in our Vicar of Christ, shall we?

 

[Dawnia]

According to an Argentinian poster here on CAF, the local press in Argentina says it was the husband who talked to the Pope (contrary to what the American press says). This of course doesn’t jive with the statement that the Pope “forgave” the woman (what did he do, forgive her through the husband?).

So there is a lot of confusion.

Why would the Pope call the husband? It was the wife who wrote the Pope the letter that initiated the call to begin with. That just sounds weird.

 

[celestialhost]

Why would the Pope call the husband? It was the wife who wrote the Pope the letter that initiated the call to begin with. That just sounds weird.

To ask him to break off sexual relations so his wife could receive the sacraments? Maybe the husband didn’t like that suggestion and decided to misrepresent the Holy Father

 

[Thorns]

The man’s comment directly contradicts what the woman herself said. I am more inclined to believe early reports of the 1st hand account from the woman who actually spoke with the Pope over the husbands second hand knowledge that very well morphed into something that he wanted the Pope to say rather than what the Pope actually said.

Memory over time tends to morph and stories change with retellings. First accounts closest to the event tend to be the most accurate.

Surely you dont believe that stories morph over time or else you’d also have to believe that our Sacred Tradition is also prone to the same type of inaccuracies and retellings.