Pope Francis: You can’t defend Christianity by being ‘against refugees and other religions’

[Hope_Philomena]

We are called to shelter the homeless. Does that mean that I must open my house to a homeless person who has a history of violence, and endanger my family?

No. But for you to put every refugee from seven countries under the label of “homeless person who has a history of violence” or whatever negative term, is generalizing. Condemning the whole for the actions of the few.

 

[I_trust]

No. But for you to put every refugee from seven countries under the label of “homeless person who has a history of violence” or whatever negative term, is generalizing. Condemning the whole for the actions of the few.

It was an allegory.
I did not condemn the refugees.
I am just reiterating that Catholic teaching is not opposed to vetting.
Again, I disagree with Trump’s actions here, but many on the forum don’t acknowledge that this country has the right and obligation to vet.

 

[Hope_Philomena]

It was an allegory.
I did not condemn the refugees.
I am just reiterating that Catholic teaching is not opposed to vetting.
Again, I disagree with Trump’s actions here, but many on the forum don’t acknowledge that this country has the right and obligation to vet.

I know it was; I mean that with this allegory you are directly implying that the whole of refugees are a danger, which they are not. Correct me if I am wrong.

Of course the country has the right to do so, but this goes well beyond vetting.

 

[I_trust]

I know it was; I mean that with this allegory you are directly implying that the whole of refugees are a danger, which they are not. Correct me if I am wrong.

Of course the country has the right to do so, but this goes well beyond vetting.

You are wrong.
My mistake, I see you did not delete the question.
I do not believe all the refugees are a danger.
I think the temporary freeze is to come up with a consistent vetting policy.
I don’t agree with this particular measure.

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

What is your point? Does it matter which President started what? The ban is considered wrong whether it is enacted under President This or President That.

Agreed.

 

[Randolph]

Swell article! :clapping: Completely on point.

“It’s hypocrisy to call yourself a Christian and chase away a refugee or someone seeking help, someone who is hungry or thirsty, toss out someone who is in need of my help,” he said. “If I say I am Christian, but do these things, I’m a hypocrite.”

It really can’t be stated more clearly than this, which makes the near-constant anti-Christ rhetoric this issue has prompted around here of late all the more incomprehensible.

It is quite a bit more complicated than that. Saying “Yes” is not always the answer. May I ask you a few specific questions?

Suppose you are a father/mother of a family of children. You live in your own house. One day, a homeless, hungry stranger–needing help–knocks on your door and asks not just foods and water, but for money and a room to stay in your house. You are thinking: “I think I can give him foods and water, but giving him money and allowing him to stay in my house are too much. Plus, I don’t know anything about this man. I can’t help him.” Would it be unchristian or hypocritical of you to turn him down?

What if you have been struggling to pay your bills and have been barely able to feed your children… Is it unchristian of you not to give him foods?

 

[Exiled_Child]

It is quite a bit more complicated than that. Saying “Yes” is not always the answer. May I ask you a few specific questions?

Suppose you are a father/mother of a family of children. You live in your own house. One day, a homeless, hungry stranger–needing help–knocks on your door and asks not just foods and water, but for money and a room to stay in your house. You are thinking: “I think I can give him foods and water, but giving him money and allowing him to stay in my house are too much. Plus, I don’t know anything about this man. I can’t help him.” Would it be unchristian or hypocritical of you to turn him down?

What if you have been struggling to pay your bills and have been barely able to feed your children… Is it unchristian of you not to give him foods?

I hear what you’re saying, Randolph. Honestly, I totally do.

I don’t have a family or kids, and I refuse to own a gun, for instance. But if I did have a wife and/or children, I can guarantee you I’d be armed to the teeth. So yes, you have a good point, and I definitely hear what you’re saying. In my life, I am actually very open to having strangers and homeless people crash at my place on a limited basis, and I very often do, but that in no way means that I feel holier-than-thou about it. Because, again, if I had kids I would definitely behave differently. I pick up random hitchhikers occasionally, too, and it’s exactly the same deal: I would never in a million years put a (hypothetical) child or family in that situation. It’s unthinkable. But considering that I’m all alone and about an inch away from being suicidal, I never hesitate to put myself in those situations. The thing about refugees though, is that these are by and large people who are in truly hellish circumstances. I’d like to refer you to a great comment by a CAF member named Rebecca:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=14440020#post14440020

If you read those links, it’s pretty plain to see that a “mere 90 day wait” is actually an eternity. We have comfy apartments and paperback potboilers and personal computers and whatnot to occupy us, but there are people facing beheadings, rape gangs, kidnappings, lifelong sexual slavery, and on and on and on. Ninety days for people in that position is life and death, and undoubtedly well beyond psychologically torturous.

Plus there’s the all-too-easily forgettable fact that we’re humans. Meaning, our memories are only very slightly superior to that of the common goldfish. We imagine in our pride and vanity that we always remember the words and ideas of Jesus, but in fact we don’t at all. We have to really honestly struggle and beat ourselves senseless to remember these “simple” truths we’ve been taught. And we have to do it constantly. Which is extremely difficult. It really is best to listen to Francis, because he’s like a shepherd repeatedly and repeatedly and repeatedly reminding us of who we profess to be.

 

[graciew]

. In my life, I am actually very open to having strangers and homeless people crash at my place on a limited basis, and I very often do

That is very lovely on your part,Exiled child.
My husband,for example,would probably hire the persons you host,for differently jobs. He is very generous with that. I love that trait of your and his…
Sometines,it is becoming a link in a chain.
Anyway,just loved your kindness giving shelter ,Exiled child,and wanted to let you know

 

[graciew]

What if you have been struggling to pay your bills and have been barely able to feed your children… Is it unchristian of you not to give him foods?

I have seen persons who have nothing,nothing sharing without hesitation. Somehow suffering makes a person closer to the suffering of other.
Do not ask me for a logical explanation. I do not have it,Randolph. One can sometimes be a witness of a great mystery of suffering and love. And give thanks to the Lord.

 

[graciew]

This confuses me. This being against other religions part.

I?

I can help with this.
Try and leave politics aside for a while.
This isn t new. In fact you do it all the time in the Church.
The Church ,a priest,will not send you to a dangerous zone recklessly. We are persons with our families and our lives are valued.
We would normally ask for interdisciplinary help is needed. And also for the sake of the persons who are innocent and should be protected because they are at more risk than ourselves.
One wouldn’ t normally go about asking religion,but catering for need.
Reality is that most of the families are kind and peaceful,but the few that are not make everybody s life very miserable.
The Church uses both head and heart.and prayer. And trust in Providence.And integration.
You will not be asked to be a kamikase. You offer what you are willing to offer. As much as you can,and the extra mile you can.
The Church loves you as much as any other person.
There is zero wish to make my comment political,just practical,Sarcelle.

 

[James248]

Like. One can not deny the correlation between when Europe and America started accepting large numbers of refugees from Syria and a massive rise in the instances of terrorist attacks.

Those attacks were from domestic terrorism.

 

[Peebo]

I hope people realize that the USA has likely been more welcoming to refugees than any other nation on earth. We typically allow 40,000-50,000 refugees every year, and last year President Obama let in somewhere around 200,000. Also, **Trump’s plan is temporary **and is being done as an effort to find ways to check out the people coming into the USA. After the 90-120 period, immigration bans will be removed.

I don’t think we can say the USA is rejecting those in need–we are simply saying wait 3-4 months so we can get a handle on how to better handle immigration.

Why is that so objectionable?

The Pope is of course 100% on target–as Christians we must help those in need, and the USA does that more than any other country, and we have let millions upon millions of people into the country. Again, why is it so terrible to put a short pause on immigration?

Check the facts…
forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2015/06/18/the-countries-with-the-most-refugees-per-1000-inhabitants-infographic/#2d87cc6a2c0a

 

[Randolph]

I have seen persons who have nothing,nothing sharing without hesitation. Somehow suffering makes a person closer to the suffering of other.
Do not ask me for a logical explanation. I do not have it,Randolph. One can sometimes be a witness of a great mystery of suffering and love. And give thanks to the Lord.

The love of Christ transforms us and edifies us. It requires us to re-assess our comfort zones and challenges us to take risks for Christ’s sake. The teachings of Christ and the Church emboldens us to error on the side of love, compassion and kindness as shown by Christ. It is no surprise that the Church teaches us to carry the cross with Christ everyday of our lives, and insists that we dies a little of ourselves everyday so that we can resurrect more fully in Christ.

The current refugee situation challenges us in newly profound ways. This time, it involves more than just love, compassion and kindness. There are now real elements of safety and security. The terrorists have vowed to manipulate the refugee program to send terrorists to inflict harms and terrors to our homes, communities and country. For our part, it is a very difficult situation of balancing all of these aspects while maintaining our noble principles. Keep in mind the US welcomed over 70,000 refugees last year and is planning to do the same this year. The plights and the sufferings of the refugees are indeed real. So are the safety and security concerns of our people.

Putting aside political talks and rhetorics, in the past several years, the consensus among intelingent reports across competing political parties is that these 7 countries have been “hot beds” for terrorist activities. This really means something. I ache for the suffering, defenseless refugees to have to wait another 90 days for further vetting. But I do think it is reasonable to do so, and it is for the best. No vetting process is perfect or even close to it. What if a few terrorists slip through in the current vetting process and commit acts of terror in our country. Could you imagine the backlash on the future of these refugee programs? How much longer than the 90 days would they have to wait? Also, in the end, we must also look out the safety and security of our nation and our children.

 

[Randolph]

I hear what you’re saying, Randolph. Honestly, I totally do.

I don’t have a family or kids, and I refuse to own a gun, for instance. But if I did have a wife and/or children, I can guarantee you I’d be armed to the teeth. So yes, you have a good point, and I definitely hear what you’re saying. In my life, I am actually very open to having strangers and homeless people crash at my place on a limited basis, and I very often do, but that in no way means that I feel holier-than-thou about it. Because, again, if I had kids I would definitely behave differently. I pick up random hitchhikers occasionally, too, and it’s exactly the same deal: I would never in a million years put a (hypothetical) child or family in that situation. It’s unthinkable. But considering that I’m all alone and about an inch away from being suicidal, I never hesitate to put myself in those situations. The thing about refugees though, is that these are by and large people who are in truly hellish circumstances. I’d like to refer you to a great comment by a CAF member named Rebecca:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=14440020#post14440020

If you read those links, it’s pretty plain to see that a “mere 90 day wait” is actually an eternity. We have comfy apartments and paperback potboilers and personal computers and whatnot to occupy us, but there are people facing beheadings, rape gangs, kidnappings, lifelong sexual slavery, and on and on and on. Ninety days for people in that position is life and death, and undoubtedly well beyond psychologically torturous.

Plus there’s the all-too-easily forgettable fact that we’re humans. Meaning, our memories are only very slightly superior to that of the common goldfish. We imagine in our pride and vanity that we always remember the words and ideas of Jesus, but in fact we don’t at all. We have to really honestly struggle and beat ourselves senseless to remember these “simple” truths we’ve been taught. And we have to do it constantly. Which is extremely difficult. It really is best to listen to Francis, because he’s like a shepherd repeatedly and repeatedly and repeatedly reminding us of who we profess to be.

Thank you for reminding us of the what’s required of us for being Catholics. I am reminded of the words of St. Theresa of Calcutta: “Give until it hurts.” Inside the homes of the Sisters of the Poor, there is a image of Christ with these two words: “I thirst.”

It is just as important for us to render appropriate and responsible discernments on this matter as we do not want to do things in such a way that we neglect our own responsibilities and obligations. As a catholic, I must admit this issue is very difficult for me to reconcile.

 

[FollowChrist34]

This is where I disagree with the Pope.

What, you are against ‘refugees and other religions?’ Yikes. Step carefully with these wide sweeps from our Pope.

We do support refugees and have profound respect for other peaceful religions, of course!! Nothing Donald Trump has done affects this is any way. There appears to be some confusion and misunderstanding here in terms of what the EO is about…

 

[graciew]

Also, in the end, we must also look out the safety and security of our nation and our children.

If we could sit down and talk. …

The movement is somehow the opposite of the one we would tend to do.
We can delay the inevitable but avoid it,no… Unless we integrate.
It is something I would love to sit down and share,because it is very dear to me,but it is diffficult in writing.
Again no politics,but as you said,a struggle to overcome daily our weaknesses and fears,and faults. As you said,ultimately become a better person for the glory of God.As you give,you receive,and ten times more.You probably know that,Randolph.

 

[Randolph]

If we could sit down and talk. …

The movement is somehow the opposite of the one we would tend to do.
We can delay the inevitable but avoid it,no… Unless we integrate.
It is something I would love to sit down and share,because it is very dear to me,but it is diffficult in writing.
Again no politics,but as you said,a struggle to overcome daily our weaknesses and fears,and faults. As you said,ultimately become a better person for the glory of God.As you give,you receive,and ten times more.You probably know that,Randolph.

I don’t understand what you wrote…

 

[Sarcelle]

I can help with this.
Try and leave politics aside for a while.
This isn t new. In fact you do it all the time in the Church.
The Church ,a priest,will not send you to a dangerous zone recklessly. We are persons with our families and our lives are valued.
We would normally ask for interdisciplinary help is needed. And also for the sake of the persons who are innocent and should be protected because they are at more risk than ourselves.
One wouldn’ t normally go about asking religion,but catering for need.
Reality is that most of the families are kind and peaceful,but the few that are not make everybody s life very miserable.
The Church uses both head and heart.and prayer. And trust in Providence.And integration.
You will not be asked to be a kamikase. You offer what you are willing to offer. As much as you can,and the extra mile you can.
The Church loves you as much as any other person.
There is zero wish to make my comment political,just practical,Sarcelle.

You missed the point.

I am against Islam because it has problematic doctrines.

I am not required as a Catholic to believe in Islam but it seems like the Pope is saying I should. If he said I was not supposed to be against Muslims than I would agree. But he said people who are against other religions. This means we are not supposed to be against other religions. This means we should not be against Islam as a religion. This does not make logical sense.

There is no logical way to be for both Christianity and Islam, as they are fundamentally incompatible.

 

[LiamQ]

There appears to be some confusion and misunderstanding here in terms of what the EO is about…

That’s exactly what my wife said.

It’s as if folks have been entirely informed by the talking points of the Democratic party or much of the mainstream media.

I’m sorry, but in reality, temporarily halting immigration from certain countries so as to improve the vetting process =/= being against refugees.

… and it’s extremely judgmental to refuse to take such policies at face value, and trust the rationale as being the true rationale, but rather to insist that someone is motivated by some secret hostility or hatred or closed-mindedness or whatever other pious language one might choose to invoke. Judge. Men. Tal.

 

[Sarcelle]

That’s exactly what my wife said.

It’s as if folks have been entirely informed by the talking points of the Democratic party.

I’m sorry, but in reality, temporarily halting immigration from certain countries so as to improve the vetting process =/= being against refugees.

These are failed states with failed governments. Vetting them will not be easy hence the momentary pause.