Pope: 'I will not say a single word' on Vigano's allegations of cover-up

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I was blessed from birth to have parents who placed God and growing in love for Him above any other thing. They mirrored for me the love that I imagine Christ has for His Church…unselfish -always ready to cheerfully sacrifice for the good of their spouse. They weren’t perfect, but their intentions were pure. And they LOVED the most precious gift God could bestow on us…our Catholic faith, along with the numerous siblings they gave me They were open to every life - 15 pregnancies/13 children -not withstanding their lack of worldly means to provide as they “breeded like rabbits.”
I could have been born into circumstances where knowledge of our loving Father was unknown or twisted. I am unworthy of the blessings God has given me.

What a marvelous God we have who draws all of us poor miserable creatures into the fullness of truth! May He continue to have mercy on us!

I agree with what 13pollitos says…we NEED Pope Francis to confirm us in the truth!

And I agree with what you said…Pope Francis’ election was legitimate. Calling for his resignation is man’s will.
 
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OK abucs, I came into the Church in 2004 so I am not very knowledgeable with how Vatican dealt with clerical abuse among other concerns in the past. Please do enlighten me about what Pope JPII did to address these issues…As to Pope Benedict XVI, he resigned in the midst of problems so I guess, Pope Francis is greater for staying put and dealing with a wounded Church.
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I am not sure why you specifically want to know about JPII. Others have ‘enlightened us’ regarding what Benedict said - speaking out against the filth in the church, changing seminary formation practice, removing priests from duty, apologizing for the wrong turn the church took, continually meeting with victims, supporting healing programs in the church, speaking publicly about this from Rome and when he travelled to different countries and changing the procedures so that the Vatican had to be notified of any priest that was alleged to have abused anyone so that the Vatican would be the one to investigate thus thwarting any possible bishop cover up by taking the responsibility unto themselves.

You are pretty close to saying Pope Benedict ran away from the problem of clerical abuse. I don’t think that is a credible position, especially given the history of Benedict and your urging for more support for pope Francis.
 
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Dear abucs,
When Pope John Paul II passed away, he came to me in a dream and left a powerful message. I went and told a priest. ONE YEAR PASSED, a week before his death anniversary, Pope Benedict mentioned Pope JPII’s last homily. The Pope failed to deliver this homily because he passed away. Pope JPII was worried about evil in mankind. "To humanity, which at times seems lost and dominated by the powers of evil, ". That was the message the Pope told me-that he will continue to fight against the evil ways. I went back to the priest who told me that he will pass my visions.
My point is… despite all the criticisms of how Pope JPII’s handled the clerical abuses during his papacy, I saw him as one who exudes great authority and purity. I also saw similar with Pope Benedict XVI but he is smaller in stature…that’s the reason for my comment…it was not intended as an insult. I am sorry if my post seemed that way.
 
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And that’s certainly a fair question. I don’t have an answer for it.
 
I guess that is what happens to all of us,no matter what,we go to work everyday.
That doesn t mean that more than one thing may be happening in our lives at the same time.
This issue about abuses is very important,and so are the people who lack drinking water,and so the persons being trafficked and so on…
I do not know…I have this image of different children clamouring for their own legitimate needs to be addressed at the same time.
And so we pray.
 
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I do agree that all those issues have importance in society. The trouble is, until we clean house and fix the problems in Our Church, we have no credibility. Without credibility, nothing any of us do or says will make a difference. It could actually cause harm.
 
13pollitos said:
I do agree that all those issues have importance in society.
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I was thinking of the needs and suffering of the persons themselves,more than in society in the abstract where the person seems to get lost. But that may be more of the mother in me…
I was just reflecting . Nothing further than reflecting
 
I understand. As a mom and teacher I have had to learn to set aside issues to deal with what MUST come first. it Is hard and at times it makes me sad, frustrated, and weary. It’s also so difficult to discern what is most important at times. That is why listening to those in our care is so important. They help us gadge how well we are doing our job. We have to have the strength to readjust when needed. Sometimes we have to humbly admit we just don’t know what to do and ask for their help. This whole situation could use a mother’s touch.

Hail Mary, full of grace…

Hail Holy Queen…

Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary…
 
This might sound like a bit much for some…thinking the death of so many in utero babies rests in the hands of the powers that be in the Church as so many live a gay life. Sexual perversion is sterile and ineffective for nothing else other than to support and please itself. The problems of the world can’t be pinned on any one person. It is certain though that so many lay people who have labored all their lives to overturn Roe V. Wade now understand better what they were really up against. I lost someone that I thought was a good friend over this current upheaval in the Church. Maybe now, some progress can be made in protecting unborn as we learn to seek support from those we know as truly our friends in Christ.
 
13pollitos said:
The trouble is, until we clean house and fix the problems in Our Church, we have no credibility.
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This is an overstatement.
It would certainly help us to “clean house” and the Church also seems to be taking many concrete steps towards doing that.

The main reason for doing this is not to give the Church more credibility, but to protect people and to live up to our goals of loving God and neighbor. The increased credibility may be a side effect, but there are a good many people who are not going to give any credence to the Church even if it was completely run by saints on Earth and never put a foot wrong.

However, even aside from the naysayers, the Church has always had significant credibility, even when it was suffering significant corruption in its ranks.
Not only are there many good and credible persons, including clergy and leaders in the Church - and no intelligent person dismisses an entire huge body as being completely non-credible based on the actions of a percentage of corrupt members - but also, the credibility and survival of the Church is coming in large part from God. It is not solely dependent on human leaders. If it was, I’m pretty sure the Church would have disintegrated centuries ago due to all the crises, schisms and attempts to take it down.

Again, I’m not saying don’t bother to clean house - but let’s do it for the right reasons, which is love of God and neighbor, and not out of some grab for credibility that we may or may not get.
 
I didn’t say it was the only reason at all. Of course it is because it NEEDS to be done! In the meantime, ignoring it and trying to still voice opinions on other issues that DO deserve attention makes the mess larger and diminished credibility. It makes us look disgusting, like we have evil motivations.

Look, today for the first time in my life it was said to me (by a coworker) that I was a fool for having children for priests to molest. They were talking about how they now no longer see why abortion is such a bad thing, and that the Church is only opposed because it “decreases the prey for predator priests”. They said the only reason the pope cares about water or environment or birth control is to ensure there are always enough “babies to go around” the reason we are opposed to gay marriage and hate gays that “don’t become priests or nuns”, why we push for “open borders” and illegal immigrants…yep, it all is because we have to produce more victims. “You know why the Duggars have so many kids, probably it’s the same with Catholics too.” It was bad enough when one was saying it, but many others were agreeing! Including two who go to Mass and volunteer at my parish. We are beginning to look like some crazy cult to many people. I was in tears and thankfully had to leave for an appt. Not looking forward to going back.

It IS affecting our credibility. That’s what lies and cover ups do. Any good we try to do, any positives we try to advocate for, it is all colored by our assumed motivations. The victims just keep increasing. Until we hear from the Pope and others in the Vatican and have true transparency and work to fix this mess, we are all seen as accomplices. We NEED the truth to be heard. What are we as lay Catholics supposed to do?
 
I’m sorry you had an upsetting experience with a coworker.
However, the fact that a person - at work, no less - would say that much extreme stuff in a row about your faith signifies to me that they have a problem with the Church that will not be fixed whatever the Church does.

Moreover, they have significant personal problems if they would say such things about a person’s religion to that person…and especially at work to a co-worker.

If anyone ever went on like that to me, Human Resources at my employer would be getting a message from me in about the next 15 minutes, and I would avoid the person forthwith as being potentially dangerous to my physical person.

As for us looking like a “crazy cult”, we eat and drink the flesh and blood of our God every Sunday. That’s going to look crazy-go-nuts to the world no matter what else we do.

I do not care about my public image as a practicing Catholic. I have been ridiculed throughout my life for many things, including my weight, having curly hair, liking certain bands or styles of music, wearing certain fashions, being sad when my pets die, my dating habits, my choice of a spouse, not changing my name when I was married, being an American, and probably 20 other things I forgot about. Just add “believing in God”, “being religious”, and “being Catholic” to the pile. Adults aren’t fazed by such bullying.

I do care about saving victims from harm and saving souls (including priests, bishops, cardinals and those they lead) from sin.

We need to not care about people who trash us. We need to simply pray for them and ignore their ignorant statements, or report them where appropriate (such as when they make inappropriate workplace comments).

We do not turn to the leaders of the Church and say, “Fix this because you’re making us look bad to others.”
 
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You are missing my point and changing the meaning of my post into something other than what I meant. I don’t have time at the moment to clarify but will attempt to later this evening. Briefly, I don’t want the Pope to speak out so that I/you/catholics in general don’t look bad. I want him to speak out because his silence is undermining the good works of the Church.

As for going to HR, I don’t anticipate anything positive to come out of it. Part of the reason I am leaving at the end of the school year anyway.
 
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13pollitos said:
Briefly, I don’t want the Pope to speak out so that I/you/catholics in general don’t look bad. I want him to speak out because his silence is undermining the Church.
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When you have time, it might help if you explain the difference, preferably with an example of an encounter with a person who does not seem to be extreme in their dislike of and ignorance about the Church.

And if your HR department allows people like what you describe to run around unchecked, I fully support your decision to leave. That to me would be a “hostile work environment” and will implode on itself eventually. Better to not be around when it happens.
 
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It’s a public school. Yes, it will implode eventually. As an institution, public schools have their own coverups to deal with and will eventually be outed as well.
 
I have a little more time now so I will try to be more clear.

As a whole, the Church claims to be founded by Jesus Himself and protected by Him. It is supposed to be the world’s moral authority. Now it is being shown so many disgusting things are occurring, and more may be hidden.

I had a long talk this weekend with my former pastor. We moved from his parish several year ago but I email occasionally. He knows my niece and one of my nephews are thinking of the convent and priesthood. Father told me to attempt to disuade them for now because he worries for the safety of their souls as well as their physical safety. He has been a faithful priest for over 40 years. He related some stories of seminary to me, and dealings with bishops. He assured me the dangers are real and worse than he realized. Father mentioned that looking back, he everything was blatantly obvious to all who looked, but he was “living with blinders on. There will be much more to come and this is just the beginning.” He is a very good priest who until now never spoke a word against the Church. He’s not into conspiracy theories or gossip. He is neither liberal nor conservative. Just a good, Holy priest and wonderful shepherd. Father told me he believes this is undermining the Church as well as ripping it apart. When even priests have lost trust in their bishops, each other, and the pope, nothing good can come of this. I do believe that. After my experience at work yesterday, I think as time goes on it will become more obvious to all of us.

I love being Catholic. I want this to make us stronger. Not seeing how it will unless the hierarchy starts opening records and unsealing documents, admitting faults and working to change. Ireland is already at a point of no return I fear. Are we going to watch the rest of the world follow?
 
I will be honest. I am angry that I have had to seek out priests to speak with about this situation. I don’t have a single priest in my area that has mentioned anything. The closest was a short, “read the bulletin insert from the bishop” at a local parish. When I attempted to ask my pastor, I was blown off and shamed. I asked another priest in the area and was met with anger. When I first reached out to personal friends and family that are priests, they asked me to talk with my pastor. It was only after being pushed back that anyone of them would open up to me. The priest that I spoke with this weekend is not one I consider a personal friend and he is not a family member, but he is the absolute best shepherd I have ever had in my life. Very good parish priest who loves his flock.

I am going to have to step away from this website for a while. I thought you deserved a response before I stepped away though. I have some very pressing family issues needing my attention. I will just keep praying and fasting, writing to bishops, and hoping to hear something before we reach the level of Ireland.
 
13pollitos said:
He knows my niece and one of my nephews are thinking of the convent and priesthood. Father told me to attempt to disuade them for now because he worries for the safety of their souls as well as their physical safety.
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If this sort of response from our priests is why we’re not getting vocations, then that’s very sad indeed. I would think the correct response would be to try to strengthen people going in so they do not fall to the first corrupt individual they come across.

New priests have been being ordained each year, despite their numbers being low. Are we to believe that every one of them coming out is corrupt? New religious are joining orders every year too. Many of them are joining smaller or newer orders. Are we to believe that they are all living in fear of their physical safety? The young sister I was on a European trip with a year or so ago did not seem to me to be a fearful person or a victim of abuse. She seemed vibrant and happy.

I am sure whatever your priest said reflects his personal experience, but I am skeptical that it applies to everybody out there. He also knows you and your family well, so maybe his concerns are personalized to some degree. I’m not pooh poohing what he said, but I don’t think his response was constructive or helpful here.

Are those called to the religious life really so unable to assert themselves spiritually, and if necessary, physically and by speaking out? Back in the day when I was seeking to enter a very male dominated (in those days) profession, I heard scare stories too, and formulated with my friends ways we would deal with situations if they arose. As it turned out, in my case, the situations generally didn’t arise. But if they had, I would have been ready.
 
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