Pope identifies 15 spiritual 'sicknesses' of the Curia [CWN]

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Timothysis said:
I always think it ironic when Pope Francis goes on about “careerism” in the Church because the first person I think of is Pope Pius XII. If there was ever a man who could be accused of careerism, it was he.

I don’t understand why the pope feels he must say things like this that are damaging against his fellow clerics. Like it or not, the Church is a bureaucracy that requires men who are familiar with the ins and outs and who know how things function, i.e. careerism. I don’t see what is so wrong about that.
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The Church is the people of God on a journey. The Vatican is a bureaucracy, and the Vatican isn’t the Church.
 
Timothysis said:
I sincerely doubt that these men who take vows to a religious order are doing it because they covet the trappings of office. Every man has a station in life and there are as many different stations in the Church as one can imagine. I don’t really see an issue for those who are of the talent and ability to manage and run things doing just that. Even a moderate size diocese needs intelligent, capable people to make things work. Religious orders and diocesan bishops will send men for advanced degrees with the explicit intent to use and harness their knowledge and abilities for the good of the parish/diocese. I don’t see that as a bad thing. I personally think that Pope Francis should be a little more selective in some of things he says. There is no denying that his off the cuff manner has served to create confusion more than clearing an issue.
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And what do you call the station in the Church in which one is free to criticize the Holy Father for fulfilling his duties as the Holy Father in a manner the criticizer doesn’t care for?
 
LongingSoul said:
. Well sometimes my daughter (who has autism honesty) will say something about a flaw or so of mine without batting and eyelid and I love her for it. No one wants to admit to their true colours. We all tend to describe them as virtues instead!
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My teens give me weekly overdose of honesty…:eek: I love them ! But not always precisely for that !😃 :hypno:
 
LongingSoul said:
I read where Padre Pio could virtually see the sins on a persons soul and would let them know it in no uncertain terms in Confession. I always wished I could have access to someone who told me the worst and deadliest things on my soul so that I could have them sorted before I stood before God on judgement day. Well sometimes my daughter (who has autism honesty) will say something about a flaw or so of mine without batting and eyelid and I love her for it. No one wants to admit to their true colours. We all tend to describe them as virtues instead!
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👍
 
graciew said:
Well…I.appreciate the.“guide” to looking into my little “Curia” within my heart , my family , community… We are all human beings after all and it is good to admit that within every family there is some “spring cleaning” of negative aspects to do.
And , if it is none of those , we can make up our own.list to go through. And work on healing.
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:yyeess: yyeess.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
And what do you call the station in the Church in which one is free to criticize the Holy Father for fulfilling his duties as the Holy Father in a manner the criticizer doesn’t care for?
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The same station that let’s every Joe Blow with a internet connection try to provoke a fight on a discussion forum.
 
Timothysis said:
The same station that let’s every Joe Blow with a internet connection try to provoke a fight on a discussion forum.
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If your point is that he is trying to provoke a fight, I didn’t see his statement in the same light.
Although the pope appears to make casual statements, he seems to always hit straight to the heart. I’m guessing that he would be in a position to know to whom he is speaking and what inisight he can impart as the good shepherd.
 
It’s statements like these that make me love Francis. The bishops are not impeccable demigods and need reminders of humility as much as the laymen (arguably even more so, since a bishopric comes with fame, prestige, and power). After the sexual abuse fiasco of the past several decades, the hierarchy’s reputation is in shambles and needs fixing. Bishops need to know that complacency and corruption cannot and will not be tolerated, and that they will be held accountable. This is especially important in the information age, when the media will be watching every move of the bishops/heirarchy/etc.
 
Since the Pope didn’t name names, I suspect most of the Curia will assume he is talking about others, just like I will assume he was not talking to those of us outside of the Curia (especially he was not talking about me).

😛 😊
 
DennyO said:
It is not clear to me why this message had to be broadcasted to anyone outside of the group Pope Francis is trying to motivate. While I applaud the vision of Pope Francis in building up the leadership of the Church in the ways of faith and attitude, shaming them may have the opposite effect.
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Bingo … praise in public, rebuke in private.
 
JackVk said:
It’s statements like these that make me love Francis. The bishops are not impeccable demigods and need reminders of humility as much as the laymen (arguably even more so, since a bishopric comes with fame, prestige, and power).
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But what are Pope Francis’ sins? He seems quick to point out the sins of others; I have never seen him mention any of his own.
 
Pope Francis is doing what his namesake Saint Francis of Assisi was told to do by our Lord…rebuild my house (church)…our Holy Father knows better than anyone what is happening behind closed doors in the Vatican…he was in fact chosen by the Holy Spirit to guide the church of Jesus Christ…if some Catholics don’t like the way he is doing things maybe they need to take it up with the Holy Spirit:rolleyes:
 
JohnPaul said:
But what are Pope Francis’ sins? He seems quick to point out the sins of others; I have never seen him mention any of his own.
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He didn’t point at other’s sins, but the sins of the group which he himself belongs to.

He’s speaking of the policies and elitism which isolates the curia from the people of the Church.

The lack of accountability and nonexistence of justice when people are harmed by the hierarchy of the Church.

Jim
 
JohnPaul said:
But what are Pope Francis’ sins? He seems quick to point out the sins of others; I have never seen him mention any of his own.
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Well, if it means anything, he has spoken of more confessions. He himself has set this example.

That said, this was reported of all places on Bloomberg (a strictly business network) this morning. They mentioned he got very little applause from those attending.
 
JohnPaul said:
Bingo … praise in public, rebuke in private.
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Openness is the Ignatian way. The devil hates exposure and really we aren’t talking about those who are ignorant of sin and of the need for healing. We are talking about those who have come through 7 years of seminary formation, continued the majority of their lives to seek Christ in prayer and penance and are charged by their position to guide the faithful in these same ways. These are fully matured Catholic religious men who would be pretty poor not to take on this challenge of the Ignatian Pope to purge themselves for the sake of the Kingdom and the Church on earth. It’s a great opportunity for humility and renewal.
 
Timothysis said:
The same station that let’s every Joe Blow with a internet connection try to provoke a fight on a discussion forum.
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Yes, shame on Joe Blow for taking offense to others using their internet connection to criticize the Holy Father for doing what a Holy Father should do, i.e. taking care of his flock. But please, tell us more of what the Holy Father is apparently doing wrong.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
He didn’t point at other’s sins, but the sins of the group which he himself belongs to.
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Perhaps, but the language is one of finger-pointing, not inclusive of himself.

“It’s the sickness of those who court their superiors, hoping for their benevolence. They are victims of careerism and opportunism, they honor people and not God.”

Notice the use of ‘they’ and not ‘we’? Also, since the Pope has no superiors within the Church’s earthly hierarchy, he cannot be talking about himself.
 
JohnPaul said:
Perhaps, but the language is one of finger-pointing, not inclusive of himself.

“It’s the sickness of those who court their superiors, hoping for their benevolence. They are victims of careerism and opportunism, they honor people and not God.”

Notice the use of ‘they’ and not ‘we’? Also, since the Pope has no superiors within the Church’s earthly hierarchy, he cannot be talking about himself.
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As head of the Catholic Church, he has that right and authority.

Jim
 
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