Pope identifies 15 spiritual 'sicknesses' of the Curia [CWN]

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MarcoPolo said:
How do you mean this in the context of this thread?
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To let women have more (name removed by moderator)ut in Curia decision-making. Granted, this doesn’t mean “ordination” of women. Let women sit in and speak at Curia meetings, say, as theologians.

The point is, the Vatican can no longer be a boys’ club. It’s not going to work. And that’s one reason why people seem so alarmed by Francis’ leadership style; he is attempting to violently truncate the fruitless human traditions within the office with which they’ve become so accustomed.

Remember, it’s not true that the Church and her modus operandi had been static from Peter to Vatican II. That’s what Councils, Synods, encyclicals, and yadda yadda yadda are for.

Also, regarding JohnPaul’s remarks on the title of monsignor, I personally don’t like it. It’s meaning is “my lord”, and Jesus is Our Lord. The clergy are our shepherds, not overlords, and we are not their serfs. I know a humble, holy priest who has the title of monsignor, but does not like to be addressed as such.
 
Timothysis said:
The internet is a wonderful place. Look it up.
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I did do some research. The only thing I found was a hit piece of a book by Cornwell and a socialist play depicting him as such by Rolf Hochhuth.

You made the assertion. You back it up.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
Here is a good piece on what Pope Francis was doing here in this address to the Curia:
The need for reform at the Vatican is not a question that pits liberals against conservatives. Pope Benedict recognized the same need and, recognizing that he no longer had the strength to lead a major reform, stepped down to clear the way for someone more energetic. Pope Francis took office with this problem foremost in his mind.
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I believe this to be spot on. This is something outside of party lines and rather unites people by corruption of the heart. ProVobis asks…* “Perhaps the previous Popes should have addressed this issue, going all the way back to the Mass reformation, royalties collected from translations, and other areas addressed in the 60’s, if not before? Just a thought.”*

I would say that the previous Popes have been attempting to make these reforms through private rebukes for a very long time but what we are talking about is not superficial errors but deeply ingrained narcissistic cancer. Private rebukes by Popes who seem like ‘foreign upstarts’ is not the answer. Pope Francis is treating the problem with some serious Ignatian radiation exposure. Narcissism has one big kryptonite and that is exposure.

If I could hazard a guess, I reckon Pope Francis has got everyone doing the spiritual exercises in the last 18 months and those with the good and godly hearts will find the fearlessness to stand behind him and support his work.
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JackVk said:
Also, regarding JohnPaul’s remarks on the title of monsignor, I personally don’t like it. It’s meaning is “my lord”, and Jesus is Our Lord. The clergy are our shepherds, not overlords, and we are not their serfs. I know a humble, holy priest who has the title of monsignor, but does not like to be addressed as such.
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Do you also not call a priest “father,” because your father is the man married to your mother?
 
JackVk said:
To let women have more (name removed by moderator)ut in Curia decision-making. Granted, this doesn’t mean “ordination” of women. Let women sit in and speak at Curia meetings, say, as theologians.

The point is, the Vatican can no longer be a boys’ club. It’s not going to work. And that’s one reason why people seem so alarmed by Francis’ leadership style; he is attempting to violently truncate the fruitless human traditions within the office with which they’ve become so accustomed.
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And exactly how will that help men to return to Church? Women already outnumber them 61-39% there.
 
sirach2v4 said:
I think we need more female (name removed by moderator)ut and representation in the Church leadership, somehow. The Vatican is many things, like a museum, a library, etc.

It is so European in makeup, that I think that may inhibit the spread of the faith in many distant places around the world.

The Church is notably and deliberately international, rather than nationalistic, like some branches of the Orthodox Church.
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Really? And yet the church is growing in Africa.

As far as more female (name removed by moderator)ut, I don’t think gender is the issue, what we need is a strong support for tradition and orthodoxy, regardless of sex. I am female, if that matters at all.
 
LongingSoul said:
I have an ever growing unease for his safely also. He is rooting out the true characters behind the pious appearances. Not unlike Jesus did in His public challenge to the hypocritical Pharisees.

They didn’t like that at all!
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But we also know from the gospels that even St. Peter our first Pope, though he was perfected through martyrdom at the end of his life, sometimes failed to do what he should.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
Wow. When I do Eucharistic Adoration I am always amazed at how many men I see there. I sit there thinking how holy they are, or at least are aspiring to be. I am feeling a little disillusioned…
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Cider said:
As far as more female (name removed by moderator)ut, I don’t think gender is the issue, what we need is a strong support for tradition and orthodoxy, regardless of sex. I am female, if that matters at all.
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Actually someone else already started a thread on that.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=929298
 
Cider said:
Really? And yet the church is growing in Africa.

As far as more female (name removed by moderator)ut, I don’t think gender is the issue, what we need is a strong support for tradition and orthodoxy, regardless of sex. I am female, if that matters at all.
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Agreed. I am female too. I feel like women are heard in the Church for the most part, no real grievance there. A Christian/Catholic is compelled by the essence of his/her faith to regard the integrity of all humanity; of course this includes men, women, children.
 
livingwordunity said:
But we also know from the gospels that even St. Peter our first Pope, though he was perfected through martyrdom at the end of his life, sometimes failed to do what he should.
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That is undoubtedly true for all the Apostles… the very first ‘Curia’. But along with Peter and the others who died to martyrdom in the first ‘Curia’ was also one who betrayed Jesus to the death and even his exposure by Christ during the Last Supper didn’t turn him away from collecting on his betrayal. Some cancers run deep.
 
LongingSoul said:
That is undoubtedly true for all the Apostles… the very first ‘Curia’. But along with Peter and the others who died to martyrdom in the first ‘Curia’ was also one who betrayed Jesus to the death and even his exposure by Christ during the Last Supper didn’t turn him away from collecting on his betrayal. Some cancers run deep.
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That has reminded me of another aspect of Judas Iscariot. He was the Apostle who directly rebuked Jesus with indignant hostility at the home of Martha and Mary.

John 12:3-8 ***"Then Mary took about a pint of pure nard, an expensive perfume; she poured it on Jesus’ feet and wiped his feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume.

But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.” He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

“Leave her alone,” Jesus replied. “It was intended that she should save this perfume for the day of my burial. You will always have the poor among you,[c] but you will not always have me.”"***

Judas seems to be holding the technical orthodox position, publically casting doubt over Jesus action.
 
LongingSoul said:
Judas seems to be holding the technical orthodox position, publically casting doubt over Jesus action.
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None of the other apostles were unorthodox and neither was Jesus. The Jews that rejected Jesus rejected him because they wanted a revolutionary for a Messiah. That’s why they chose Barabbas over Jesus and why it is mentioned in the gospel that Barabbas was a revolutionary. Wanting a worldly revolution fits with communism and liberation theology.
 
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