Pope identifies 15 spiritual 'sicknesses' of the Curia [CWN]

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livingwordunity said:
None of the other apostles were unorthodox and neither was Jesus. The Jews that rejected Jesus rejected him because they wanted a revolutionary for a Messiah. That’s why they chose Barabbas over Jesus and why it is mentioned in the gospel that Barabbas was a revolutionary. Wanting a worldly revolution fits with communism and liberation theology.
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No, you are thinking retrospectively to make that assessment applying 2000 years of hindsight and Christian development to your judgment. At the time of the scripture account, Jesus was a Jew who was breaking all the rules and the apostles, by following him were technically in dissent also. Judas’ confidence was coming from his orthodox position and denial of Jesus authority.

We also can only know what we know today. None of us knows with future hindsight which position will prove genuinely orthodox or not. What we have to go on is trust in the successor of Peter as guided by the Holy Spirit. Making ‘orthodox’ mean that development of doctrine is impossible is technically not true orthodoxy. Orthodox really means being faithful to Christ, not the law alone.
 
LongingSoul said:
No, you are thinking retrospectively to make that assessment applying 2000 years of hindsight and Christian development to your judgment. At the time of the scripture account, Jesus was a Jew who was breaking all the rules and the apostles, by following him were technically in dissent also. Judas’ confidence was coming from his orthodox position and denial of Jesus authority.

We also can only know what we know today. None of us knows with future hindsight which position will prove genuinely orthodox or not. What we have to go on is trust in the successor of Peter as guided by the Holy Spirit. Making ‘orthodox’ mean that development of doctrine is impossible is technically not true orthodoxy. Orthodox really means being faithful to Christ, not the law alone.
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Matthew 5:18
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

That’s an interesting opinion on Judas. How is that the “technical
orthodox” position? What do you base that on?
 
JohnPaul said:
Bingo … praise in public, rebuke in private.
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Spot on. DennyO and Timothyus have posted comments that I agree with. I’m quite sure that this will offend so apologies in advance but I am fearful that there’s an attempt afoot to try and change church teaching.

That “funereal face” comment was very childish and superficial although I’m hoping against hope that is was a misquote. People’s display of emotions is nothing to do with the core teachings which are timeless and should be followed unshakably and without any interference from liberals who want to change the church to move with the times.

The Holy Father is respected and admired by the church (I’d include myself in that tentatively) but there needs to be some intervention to prevent these interviews occurring without communications that have been agreed upon beforehand. The church is being praised in the media for practically all the wrong reasons! It also shows a lack of leadership which is really ironic.
 
I don’t know why the Pope couldn’t have made these stinging comments in private. At the risk of sounding judgmental, I’d say they sounded rather judgmental.
 
Seamus_L said:
I don’t know why the Pope couldn’t have made these stinging comments in private. At the risk of sounding judgmental, I’d say they sounded rather judgmental.
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At the risk of sounding judgmental.I’d say you sounded rather judgmental by saying the comments sounded rather judgmental at the risk of sounding judgmental.
 
I thought the Pope’s explanation of the different ‘sicknesses’ to be excellent. I think he was referring to the curia as an example of all Christians! I found it enlightening, & I do think there’s something in there for all of us.
 
Seamus_L said:
It wasn’t too long ago that I remember quite a few Catholics saying that the vast majority of our bishops were very wise, holy, and devoted men. Now according to Pope Francis, at least, that sure doesn’t sound like the case.
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we need holy men is what Pope is after
 
A little correction to our leaders are justified and needed. Thank you Pope Francis!

11 My son, do not reject the discipline of the LORD Or loathe His reproof, 12 For whom the LORD loves He reproves, Even as a father corrects the son in whom he delights. 13 How blessed is the man who finds wisdom And the man who gains understanding
Pro 3;11-13

who reproves a wicked man gets insults for himself. 8 Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you,** Reprove a wise man and he will love you. 9 Give instruction to a wise man and he will be still wiser, Teach a righteous man and he will increase his learning**. 10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding
Pro 9;7-10

We should all bare healthy criticism well.
 
Oneofthewomen said:
Being very Ignatian in my spirituality, I am one who has never been worried about anything that Pope Francis says. He himself said, "I am a son of the Church.…"
And, the comment “who am I to judge” was completely taken out of context by people who want things to change in regards to Church teaching on all matters of sexuality.
If you dig a little deeper into the comment, Pope Francis was talking about homosexual, yet chaste, members of the clergy, who have a terrible cross to bear, but are trying hard to live their life in accordance with the Church. What is so bad about that? 🤷
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👍🙂
 
That was not a little correction. When was the last time a Pope spoke so critically of his fellow Bishops, I doubt any of us had been born yet.
 
Timothysis said:
I am perfectly aware of what Pope Francis said and how he meant it. What is so bad is that there are many who do not parse his words and arrive at erroneous conclusions about the topic. Do you think it better for the pope to sit back and just say to himself “I am right” while there are legions of people confused by what he said? As pope and pastor to the world, he should be as clear as possible in the things he says so as to avoid any confusion. Is that really too much to ask?
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:hypno:you seem a little confused yourself. I would take it easy on his criticism
 
**
I believe he is just making the Curia a much healthier group of leaders. Nothing more. **
 
Timothysis said:
Not according to this quote: "Photos of the meeting show a room full of long-faced prelates. Reports indicate that the Pope received only sparse, tepid applause. The mood of the pre-Christmas meeting was anything but joyous."
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so!!!:confused::confused:
 
Seamus_L said:
I don’t know why the Pope couldn’t have made these stinging comments in private. At the risk of sounding judgmental, I’d say they sounded rather judgmental.
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Absolutely and the comment about desiring truth in its purest form from T is also spot on. Be aware that this forum contains trolls so I’d recommend ignoring them. It seems to me the Pope’s comments go down well with West Coast USA democrat Catholics who seem to approve of vagueness and “diversity”. It is unfortunate that they’re not confined to one Geographical region. We must all ensure that they don’t get to influence the church which is shrinking all the time due to certain people’s desire to make it as secular as they can!
A priest in my parish in Northern Ireland said at one of his ear bleeding homilies: “God doesn’t mind if we miss Mass the odd time. God is more concerned with how charitable and graceful we are to our fellow man”. WE get this heresy every week and sizes of congregations continue to plummet. The media will love this and they will lap up this confusing interview!! I’m sick of it!!!
The Catholic Faith is the one true faith and that’s because Jesus Christ meant for us to accept his truth in it’s whole Universal (Catholic) form.
 
WilT said:
we need holy men is what Pope is after
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I remember a certain pastor several years ago mentioning the fact that throughout 2000 yrs of Catholicism only eight Cardinals have been canonized.

The Pope is basically saying nothing that many of us didn’t know before.
 
Cider said:
Really? And yet the church is growing in Africa.

As far as more female (name removed by moderator)ut, I don’t think gender is the issue, what we need is a strong support for tradition and orthodoxy, regardless of sex. I am female, if that matters at all.
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I don’t think your gender matters if you don’t agree with the loud and opinionated feminist "voice’. They despise the Church and its teaching so they enjoy this controversy
 
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