Pope identifies 15 spiritual 'sicknesses' of the Curia [CWN]

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If the Pope says it. . . It is right.

Who are we to second guess or not accept what our shepherd proclaims?

It’s ridiculous and unbecoming of the faithful in my opinion.

When the Pope speaks we need to shut our mouths and listen. PERIOD.
 
What I’ve noticed about this type of “dialogue” is that when you ask a straight question, you never get an answer back. That says it all…
Well hecks, give it a minute will you! It’s 6am on Christmas morning here and not a creature is stirring not even a mouse so I just made myself a cup of tea.
 
I’m not too bright. So specifically what do you want to happen in this “real growth opportunity”? It’s a very simple question
Well so far in the last 18 months, Pope Francis has tried to shift our expression of faith away from judgemental directness towards sinners, and make our lives the witness to Christ rather than just our words. People keep saying he is ‘confusing’ but I think he is being ‘contronting’ and some are just misinterpreting that as ‘confusing’ because they want a Pope who tows their line. But that’s the difference between the Catholic Church and other Christian Churchs. We have an office to follow ordained by Christ Himself and we can have faith the Holy Spirit will lead our growth and renewal.
 
If the Pope says it. . . It is right.

Who are we to second guess or not accept what our shepherd proclaims?

It’s ridiculous and unbecoming of the faithful in my opinion.

When the Pope speaks we need to shut our mouths and listen. PERIOD.
Sadly this appears to no longer be the norm.
 
If the Pope told someone they were vile disgusting, obnoxious, and the spawn of Satan, he would still be infallible, but such comments would be rude and offensive, and perhaps not necessarily accurate.
 
If the Pope told someone they were vile disgusting, obnoxious, and the spawn of Satan, he would still be infallible, but such comments would be rude and offensive, and perhaps not necessarily accurate.
OK.

In the spirit of our Holy Father’s homily which I have just heard where he tells us

God is patient.
God is close.
God is tenderness

I will attempt to follow his words in my response.

It is not your place Seamus. It is not my place. It is unbecoming and untoward to second guess or criticize our universal vicar.

I love all of the Popes of my lifetime and feel that all Popes for the last 100 years at least have been exceedingly holy men- I may prefer this or that Popes style. however. . .

I would never say the kinds of things about a Pope which are floating around here.

Because quite frankly. . . . . A pope has things to tell me. . . to teach me. . . . to inspire me.

And I listen. I bow my head and listen. That’s what we Catholics do.

He is our leader in faith and we owe it to “back him up” as it were. There are millions who would tear Francis down.

I wish these comments would stop because I believe they are hurtful to our faith and mar the impression we leave on lurkers.

But I can’t control what is posted here. That’s my peace on this matter. Maybe folks could examine their consciences on this??

I am not throwing this out there to be high and mighty and Lord knows, I need to examine mine. But. . . .

Can’t we stop?

I don’t believe I can be any more clear in my thoughts on this matter.
 
If the Pope says it. . . It is right.
Actually, that’s like saying that the Pope is infallible 24/7. The Church has never taught that about the papacy. He’s infallible only when he’s infallible.
 
Actually, that’s like saying that the Pope is infallible 24/7. The Church has never taught that about the papacy. He’s infallible only when he’s infallible.
I mean that in the spirit of the word. And as far as we as laymen need to be concerned- He is right, and we should listen and learn, not second guess, analyze, and criticize.

Criticizing the Holy Father is not our place. PERIOD.
 
OK.

In the spirit of our Holy Father’s homily which I have just heard where he tells us

God is patient.
God is close.
God is tenderness

I will attempt to follow his words in my response.

It is not your place Seamus. It is not my place. It is unbecoming and untoward to second guess or criticize our universal vicar.

I love all of the Popes of my lifetime and feel that all Popes for the last 100 years at least have been exceedingly holy men- I may prefer this or that Popes style. however. . .

I would never say the kinds of things about a Pope which are floating around here.

Because quite frankly. . . . . A pope has things to tell me. . . to teach me. . . . to inspire me.

And I listen. I bow my head and listen. That’s what we Catholics do.

He is our leader in faith and we owe it to “back him up” as it were. There are millions who would tear Francis down.

I wish these comments would stop because I believe they are hurtful to our faith and mar the impression we leave on lurkers.

But I can’t control what is posted here. That’s my peace on this matter. Maybe folks could examine their consciences on this??

I am not throwing this out there to be high and mighty and Lord knows, I need to examine mine. But. . . .

Can’t we stop?

I don’t believe I can be any more clear in my thoughts on this matter.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you on this. However it is easy for all of us to say that we should listen to the Pope as he knows more than us but when our current Pope publicly criticized Pope Benedict for his Regensburg speech about Islam a few years ago, isn’t what he did back then just as bad if not worse?
 
Yes right. I do not accept any deviation from Church teaching that includes the authority of the Pope and the processes of the Synods and Councils initiated by him. When the synod is finalised and the resultant letter or encyclical is signed off by the Pope… I will faithfully accept it.
Ok. Let’s take a couple of examples. So you accept for example that marriage is between a man and a woman and sexual relations only take place during that union for the procreation of life?

Also for receipt of communion, that only those in a state of grace who have reconciled themselves to God through the sacrament of reconciliation should be allowed to receive holy communion?

There are more examples but are you in agreement with these two? If so, do you accept that no one can change this?
 
I don’t necessarily disagree with you on this. However it is easy for all of us to say that we should listen to the Pope as he knows more than us but when our current Pope publicly criticized Pope Benedict for his Regensburg speech about Islam a few years ago, isn’t what he did back then just as bad if not worse?
I think the liberals are trying to throw in a curve ball by pretending to adhere to Papal infallibility…without really understanding what it means. That is not a surprise to me
 
Really? Do you not recall when Pope Francis said “who am I to judge?” when speaking about homosexuals and the media frenzy, as well as some Catholic circles, who thought that he was basically saying that it is no longer a sin to be a practicing homosexual?

Like I said, the things he says are what the Church has always taught but his manner in speaking leaves many confused as to what he is actually saying including his statements about the Curia.

Merry Christmas
Yes,I do remember.
Really,he does not confuse me.
I may not understand some things as I did not understand Benedict or John Paul,but that doesn’t mean he confuses me.
I speak his language so that may be an advantage ,anyway I do not have a crystal ball nor can read his mind just like everybody else.
We can profit from what one does understand,which is already a lot to put into practice.His daily homilies are very good.
Merry Christmas to you too ! :). Merry Christmas to you all! 🙂
 
I mean that in the spirit of the word. And as far as we as laymen need to be concerned- He is right, and we should listen and learn, not second guess, analyze, and criticize.

Criticizing the Holy Father is not our place. PERIOD.
Then we have no business having any of these discussions and there is no point in posting any of these news articles.

Catholic newspapers, run by laymen, do plenty of second guessing, analyzing and criticizing of popes. In all of my reading of church history, there has always been plenty of criticizing of popes. In fact, the Church burned Savonarola at the stake for doing just that - criticizing the pope. 🙂

Merry Christmas everyone!
 
I think the liberals are trying to throw in a curve ball by pretending to adhere to Papal infallibility…without really understanding what it means. That is not a surprise to me
I see, so who exactly are you being uncharitable toward by not only placing a divisive label on, but also claim that they lie and lie about stuff they don’t really understand?
 
This is CNN’s coverage; there’s also a brief video segment at the link:

cnn.com/2014/12/22/world/pope-francis-curia/index.html

Pope Francis has unleashed a blistering critique of the Vatican bureaucracy – or Curia – criticizing its “illnesses” ranging from the “disease of feeling immortal” to vainglory and excessive planning.
In his annual Christmas address to the Curia at the Vatican Monday, the Pontiff warned that “a church that doesn’t try to improve is like a sick body.”
Francis said suggested that it would be helpful to the Vatican bureaucrats to have a catalog of their illnesses beginning with “this disease of feeling immortal or indispensable.”
The “pathology of power,” he said, could lead to people believing “they are superior to others and not here for the service to others.”
Dear brothers let us be aware and guard against the terrorism of gossip.
Pope Francis
Francis warned against the disease of loss of compassion, which he said afflicted “those who have a heart of stone.”
“Those who lose their inner serenity, their vivacity and audacity, to hide behind their papers, becoming like procedural machines rather than men of God. This is dangerous to lose human sensitivity, so necessary in order to cry with those who cry and enjoy with those who enjoy,” the Pope said.
Pope Francis referred to the diseases of “excessive planning and functionalism” and of “bad coordination,” which he said could occur when members did not collaborate with each other. There was also the risk of succumbing to spiritual Alzheimer’s disease and “forgetting the story of salvation,” he said, warning that sufferers “lost memory of their encounter with God.”
The Pope described the diseases of rivalry and vainglory, and rebuked those who try to court their superiors “inspired by their own egotism.”
The disease of gossip, Francis said, he had addressed before – but insufficiently.
“This is a serious disease that begins simply when people chatter, and it takes over theperson, turning the person as a Satan, and in so many cases people are speaking ill about their own colleagues and brothers and sisters. These people haven’t got the courage to speak directly, and they speak about others behind their backs,” he said. “Dear brothers, let us be aware and guard against the terrorism of gossip.”
Pope Francis also appeared to speak to the child abuse scandal that has rocked the Catholic Church, referring to it as the “disease of a closeness.”
“This disease also begins from good intentions, but with the passing of time enslaves its members, becoming a cancer which threatens the harmony of the body and causes a lot of evil and scandal, especially towards our small brothers and sisters,” Francis said.
Finally, Francis warned against the disease of the mundane – “of the exhibitionism when the apostle transforms his service in power.”
“This is a disease of people who seek tirelessly to multiply power only aimed at calumny, and to defame and discredit others,” he said.
Pope Francis concluded: "Dear brothers, such diseases and such temptations are a naturally a danger for each Christian and for each Curia. For each community, for any ecclesiastical movement. They can damage both individually and the community. We have to say that only the Holy Spirit and the soul of Christ, only he can protect us from the disease.
“We have to cure ourselves of these. Let us try to grow together and close to Christ.”
In an interview with CNN’s Christiane Amanpour that aired earlier this month, veteran Vatican watcher Marco Politi said Pope Francis had been encountering growing opposition within his own church.
This was mainly due to Francis’ efforts at reform since becoming Pope in March 2013, Politi said.
“Within the Church, there is a tough group of conservative bishops and priests and cardinals, and also very traditionalist bishops and cardinals who are practically against the Pope, who are working against the Pope,” he said. “They don’t like what he wanted to do with the synod about family, to give new possibilities to remarried and divorced people to get the communion, or to have a new look on the homosexual union.”
 
There we have it. The interview is being interpreted by Marco Politi to say what he wants it to say and this hasn’t been challenged.

Happy Christmas everyone 😦
 
I see, so who exactly are you being uncharitable toward by not only placing a divisive label on, but also claim that they lie and lie about stuff they don’t really understand?
I don’t care how “uncharitable” the truth is my friend. There are no long statements about “dialogue” in the Ten Commandments. What people do is up to them but the laws are unchanging and timeless. As for “divisive”, refer to Chapter 10 of the Gospel of Matthew.
If anything runs contrary to church teaching the challenge made by the Holy Spirit will come about. That might be through “divisive” and “uncharitable” people like me. I’m happy to wear that label. Thanks
 
I don’t care how “uncharitable” the truth is my friend.
I don’t need to name specifics when the evidence is there for all to read on the thread. That is a straight answer without wriggling out of your question.
There are no long statements about “dialogue” in the Ten Commandments. What people do is up to them but the laws are unchanging and timeless. As for “divisive”, refer to Chapter 10 of the Gospel of Matthew.
If anything runs contrary to church teaching the challenge made by the Holy Spirit will come about. That might be through “divisive” and “uncharitable” people like me. I’m happy to wear that label. Thanks

Just to ensure I’m being “charitable” I wish you a very Happy Christmas…genuinely :o
 
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