Pope revises catechism to say death penalty is 'inadmissible'

[mere_christian]

Not really, the argument can be made that imprisoning people is akin to slavery. That this is a violation of human dignity and therefore inadmissible.

 

[Genesis315]

I’ll say error, not lie, but yeah. Prisons are not museums of human dignity and safety.

It’s also too bad there really is no data to compare whether someone guilty of a crime worthy of death is more likely to repent and be saved with life in prison or by being given the opportunity to confess and be absolved just before being executed. Not to mention that being deprived of one’s life after such absolution would be a worthy satisfaction, as the Catechism still says. Is such a quick expiation worse than a long purgatory on earth?

 

[mere_christian]

I’m not against rehabilitating, although the effectiveness of rehabilitation in prisons is another matter. Also just to point out I am not from the USA so im speaking as a european, specifically The United Kingdom, I can state that since the abolition of the death penalty violent crime has increased exponentially, murder is as high as its evern been in London.

But my point is that the primary purpose of prison is A) deterence, B)punishment c) Justice for the victim . After that we can talk about rehabilitation.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

Not really, the argument can be made that imprisoning people is akin to slavery. That this is a violation of human dignity and therefore inadmissible.

Hyperbole again. Society has an absolute right to protect itself from harm. We, however, must protect ourselves in such a way that does not contravene the teachings of God.

 

[angel12]

Not really, the argument can be made that imprisoning people is akin to slavery. That this is a violation of human dignity and therefore inadmissible.

You go right ahead and make that argument. The Church does not join you.

 

[angel12]

I think his mind would be changed if he had to actually live with murderers and rapists. Let all the people that are supposedly no threat to others move to the Vatican.

Where did Pope Francis say they are “no threat to others?”

 

[mere_christian]

And how does the death penalty contravene the teachings of God? Because the bible i read and the church fathers i read and the catechism until today stated that the death penalty was permissible

 

[exnihilo]

Prison worked out great for protecting this boy and his grandmother. If you told their family about how the dignity of life is what resulted in their loved ones being killed they’d probably not be too happy.

Alabama boy and great-grandmother murdered by homeless convict | Daily Mail Online

 

[yankeesouth]

Well isn’t that one of his conditions to get rid of the death penalty? That the prisoner is no longer a threat?

 

[mere_christian]

Who knows, it might do in the future, apparently doctrine is not fixed, it develops, maybe the church will come to this understanding, like it moved its position on the death penalty.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

But as much as it saddens me , this has put me off joining the Catholic Church. Maybe I’m wrong, I pray God shows me if I am. But my time in the wilderness continues.

May God give you ear to hear and eyes to see.

God may have already shown you, but he will not force you to accept his commands. God loves us too much to interfere with our free will.

 

[angel12]

Well isn’t that his reason to get rid of the death penalty? That the prisoner is no longer a threat?

If they weren’t threats, they wouldn’t need to be in prison. Duh. Again, where does the Pope say they are “no longer a threat?”

 

[LittleFlower]

I’m not against rehabilitating, although the effectiveness of rehabilitation in prisons is another matter. Also just to point out I am not from the USA so im speaking as a european, specifically The United Kingdom, I can state that since the abolition of the death penalty violent crime has increased exponentially, murder is as high as its evern been in London.

But my point is that the primary purpose of prison is A) deterence, B)punishment c) Justice for the victim . After that we can talk about rehabilitation.

From Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

However, the 709 homicides recorded in the year ending March 2017 includes the 96 cases of manslaughter that resulted from events at Hillsborough in 1989; excluding these cases, the number of homicides increased by 8% (from 568 to 613). Drivers of this increase are explored in later sections.

(613 murders/65,000,000 total UK population) x 100,000 = 0.94% murder rate per 100,000 people

 

[exnihilo]

Right here

Modern society in fact has the means of effectively suppressing crime by rendering criminals harmless without definitively denying them the chance to reform.”

 

[mrsdizzyd]

And how does the death penalty contravene the teachings of God? Because the bible i read and the church fathers i read and the catechism until today stated that the death penalty was permissible

The death penalty has been taught as a necessary evil. Without necessity it is just evil.

 

[angel12]

Right here

Yes, because they’re in prison, away from the public. It looks to me to be written in fairly basic English, I’m not sure why it’s so hard to understand.

 

[mere_christian]

Maybe, but which are his commands, the one from the teachers that said its permissible , or the one from the teachers who say it is not?

 

[LittleFlower]

Step back for a moment.

I never said people should be let out without due process. I said that the death penalty isn’t needed.

You can educate people, you can keep them in prison (and not in solitary confinement) indefinitely if they are a continued risk for community. But that doesn’t mean you lock them in, and give them nothing.

 

[yankeesouth]

Lastly, more effective systems of detention have been developed, which ensure the due protection of citizens

Prisoners are still threats to other prisoners and those that are detaining them.

 

[exnihilo]

It isn’t. But it is an untruth. Prisoners commit crimes against people while in prison. Maybe you need a logic lesson.