Pope says weapons manufacturers can't call themselves Christian

[LongingSoul]

Yes, it was a pointy knife. The kind that the English can’t be trusted with in their “cutlery”.

It’s not even the pointiness or sharpness of the knife that attracts prohibition first and foremost… it’s the mystique of particular knives. They are desired, not for their defensive properties because that’s not that realistic, but for the sense of power they afford the carrier over other people. Those are two very different experiences. It’s similar to western countries aversion to the handgun. There are definitely more deadly guns out there that are unashamedly overkillers… but the handgun, like Clark Kents tights, gives ordinary folks and criminals alike, the false sense that they are safer because they are now superhuman with this thing.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

It’s not even the pointiness or sharpness of the knife that attracts prohibition first and foremost… it’s the mystique of particular knives. They are desired, not for their defensive properties because that’s not that realistic, but for the sense of power they afford the carrier over other people. Those are two very different experiences. It’s similar to western countries aversion to the handgun. There are definitely more deadly guns out there that are unashamedly overkillers… but the handgun, like Clark Kents tights, gives ordinary folks and criminals alike, the false sense that they are safer because they are now superhuman with this thing.

She’s obviously mad with power! She must be compensating for some psychological inadequacy.

 

[KSU]

So logic and reasoning puts one’s life in danger in merry old England?

Sad to say, there is no such thing as Merry Old England. There was such a storied place, once. A place of no poverty to speak of, and no shortage of food or work. A place of generosity, song and laughter, with both civil and ecclesiastical institutions founded on the Word of God. Men did nor fear ownership of weapons.

In the fifteenth and early sixteenth centuries, Catholicism brought about a revival of letters, classical studies, art, music and architecture. Oxford and Cambridge were internationally renowned. Local churches were the centers of both social and spiritual life. Even peasant farmers were becoming small freeholders. Mass, Rosaries, God and neighbor were the orders of the day.

Was there ever a happier society than Merrie Olde England before Henry VIII?

 

[JimmyG88]

I think ‘Merrie England’ was an expresion used for the reign of Charles II

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

At least you are acknowleding the “cut” in “cutlery”. Otherwise you are not contributing much to the discussion. The question is not wether one expects laws to be enforced but whether one expects laws to be reasonable. Increasingly the answer is “no” and the land of George Orwell is leading the way.

For those who might be mised by the above, note that pointy kitchen and steak knives are very much under threat in England these days in their anti-weaponry zeal.

If there is ever a future English pope Zwilling will probably be excommunicated.

 

[JimmyG88]

At least you are acknowleding the “cut” in “cutlery”. Otherwise you are not contributing much to the discussion. The question is not wether one expects laws to be enforced but whether one expects laws to be reasonable. Increasingly the answer is “no” and the land of George Orwell is leading the way.

For those who might be mised by the above, note that pointy kitchen and steak knives are very much under threat in England these days in their anti-weaponry zeal.

If there is ever a future English pope Zwilling will probably be excommunicated.

At least 1984 was fiction unlike McCarthism. I would think taking weaponry out of the hands of the general public is always a good idea. I think zealotry is probably typified by an culture which prohibits alcohol rather than knives and guns. The last English Pope didn’t seem to exhibit a predeluction for excommunication that was out of kilter with the times

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

At least 1984 was fiction unlike McCarthism. I would think taking weaponry out of the hands of the general public is always a good idea. I think zealotry is probably typified by an culture which prohibits alcohol rather than knives and guns. The last English Pope didn’t seem to exhibit a predeluction for excommunication that was out of kilter with the times

I don’t agree with your zeal to remove weapons from the general public. What the Engish have so nicely demonstrated is the futility of this.

What is a weapon, after all?

Well, guns are weapons, of course. Even the fancy guns that the gentry use for hunting.

And, as the English are now discovering, knives are weapons too. Not just dirks and daggers but steak and kitchen knives. If it can cut a hunk of meat, it can cut a person.

Beyond that? Well, we can just keep working our way backwards in history: bows and arrows, slings and rocks, clubs (aka cricket bats).

Funny how that works, huh?

And then there are all manner of modern inventions that can be weaponized: airplanes, cars, etc.

This way leads to madness.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I had orginally hoped that this was the case. But while I agree that Pope Francis is imprecise, I think the media has simply said more plainly and directly what he is thinking.

One could debate all day the degree to which Pope Francis meant to dress down weapon manufacturers and investors but what is clear is that he chose to direct his attention to them and not to the governments that actually use weapons to wage war. Those here attempting tp defend him have similarly sought to avoid criticizing governments and politicians who make the actual choice to go to war.

Why focus on weapon manufacturers and investors and not governments and politicians?

The answer is obvious to me.

 

[JimmyG88]

I don’t agree with your zeal to remove weapons from the general public. What the Engish have so nicely demonstrated is the futility of this.

What is a weapon, after all?

Well, guns are weapons, of course. Even the fancy guns that the gentry use for hunting.

And, as the English are now discovering, knives are weapons too. Not just dirks and daggers but steak and kitchen knives. If it can cut a hunk of meat, it can cut a person.

Beyond that? Well, we can just keep working our way backwards in history: bows and arrows, slings and rocks, clubs (aka cricket bats).

Funny how that works, huh?

And then there are all manner of modern inventions that can be weaponized: airplanes, cars, etc.

This way leads to madness.

It must be me because I can’t remember the last time a good ol’ boy shot up a bible class in the UK. That gun thing is working well for you

 

[JimmyG88]

I had orginally hoped that this was the case. But while I agree that Pope Francis is imprecise, I think the media has simply said more plainly and directly what he is thinking.

One could debate all day the degree to which Pope Francis meant to dress down weapon manufacturers and investors but what is clear is that he chose to direct his attention to them and not to the governments that actually use weapons to wage war. Those here attempting tp defend him have similarly sought to avoid criticizing governments and politicians who make the actual choice to go to war.

Why focus on weapon manufacturers and investors and not governments and politicians?

The answer is obvious to me.

Well in western democracies we choose the governments but we have no power over arms manufacturers. They are ruthless profit driven multi nationals.

 

[JimmyG88]

I blame Maggie Smith

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Well in western democracies we choose the governments but we have no power over arms manufacturers. They are ruthless profit driven multi nationals.

In fact, as has been pointed out previously, even in nominally capitalist countries, arms manufacturers are heavily regulated.

As for democracy, all that means is that voters share responsibility for making war.

 

[JimmyG88]

In fact, as has been pointed out previously, even in nominally capitalist countries, arms manufacturers are heavily regulated.

As for democracy, all that means is that voters share responsibility for making war.

The regulation isn’t working though is it

 

[JimmyG88]

She seems to have fallen on her feet. Huge house. The servants seem troublesome though. Perhaps they hunt the butler now fox is off the menu

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

The regulation isn’t working though is it

The regulation is working as well as any other.

When I pick up the newspaper I read that Obama is deciding this or that with respect to arming the Kurds or Putin is arming (or not) east Ukraine.

Of course, if you love governemnt and hate private enterprise, then, well, you might be tempted to overlook the actual decision makers and scapegoat arms manufacturers.

But that would be un-Christian.

 

[JimmyG88]

They should provide them with that ultimate oxymoron ‘plastic silverware’

 

[JimmyG88]

The regulation is working as well as any other.

When I pick up the newspaper I read that Obama is deciding this or that with respect to arming the Kurds or Putin is arming (or not) east Ukraine.

Of course, if you love governemnt and hate private enterprise, then, well, you might be tempted to overlook the actual decision makers and scapegoat arms manufacturers.

But that would be un-Christian.

That would be like the Pope then

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

That would be like the Pope then

You think the pope is scapegoating arms manufacturers and investors for the sins of governments and voters?

 

[Path_Finder]

It must be me because I can’t remember the last time a good ol’ boy shot up a bible class in the UK. That gun thing is working well for you

Now, I note, each year in the UK, around 3,000 persons are killed or seriously injured in drink driving auto accidents: drinkdrivingfacts.com/drinkdriving/drink_driving_facts.aspx

Per all of these mass shootings, in 30 years, that number is around 580 I understand, tragic in itself.

Do you think we should be more concerned in trying to get alcohol made illegal?

 

[KSU]

I think ‘Merrie England’ was an expresion used for the reign of Charles II

Merrie Olde England (i.e., its Catholic culture and economic system–the English Monastery system) began to fade in 1536 when Henry began seizing monasteries, convents and priories; confiscating endowments of universities, chantries, guilds and hospitals. Tenant farmers were displaced, resulting in chaos and, for the first time in English history, wandering paupers and mass poverty.

By 1574, in accord with Protestant law, beggars were branded with hot irons, given iron collars and forced into slavery for two years. That, Jimmy, my lad, is the Merrie England you refer to.