Pope suggests Trump: not Christian

[queenofheartscv]

Perhaps it would be wise to research to the topic of papal infallibility before you post any more about it.

The next thing you suggest will be for everyone to get a PH.D like you so we will have an equal footing in knowledge with you. I find your posts very condescending. Common sense is apparently not enough in conversing with you.

 

[gracepoole]

No, it is a lazy response from someone who has been responding for hours in an attempt to convince people that what the Pope said was not only correct, but that it is 100% the Gospel. It saddens me to my soul that so many Catholics will side with a businessman against the Pope regarding an issue of faith and morals. Against the Pope–I cannot even stand writing that phrase, but it’s true. The Pope is the one person on earth who has the most Divinely given authority to speak about faith and morals, and Catholics are siding against him. In my genuine heartbreak, I have tried with all my heart to convince people to back away from such a harsh stance–mostly to no avail. Oh well–I have tried my very best.

In truth, I am tired and weary and got lazy. I retract my previous post and I will talk to you soon.

Have a blessed night.

You’ve fought the good fight. Rest well!

I was also a lit professor

Mia familia! I knew there was (another) reason I liked you.

 

[Path_Finder]

Doesn’t matter. He’s running for President. Every single word he says goes under the microscope. It’s the way the game is played. He knows it. They all know it, and they know that the slightest misstep is an opening for an opponent to attack.

He has misspoken many times and people just like his direct talk, this isn’t politics as usual. He may well even be helped by this.

 

[Path_Finder]

I’m not saying that I am an authority. I just have no respect for their reporting. Take it or leave it.

And I pointed out, one did not point out any error in the story, so this is as said already, attacking the messenger, not the message. Take it or leave it!

 

[Good_Tidings]

The next thing you suggest will be for everyone to get a PH.D like you so we will have an equal footing in knowledge with you. I find your posts very condescending. Common sense is apparently not enough in conversing with you.

A little harsh, don’t you think? Common sense would be greatly appreciated. I’ve seen a great deal of it on this thread.

 

[Path_Finder]

The next thing you suggest will be for everyone to get a PH.D like you so we will have an equal footing in knowledge with you. I find your posts very condescending. Common sense is apparently not enough in conversing with you.

No, bringing in Papal Infallibility is perfectly fine here. I don’t see why one would even object.

The Catholic Church’s teaching on papal infallibility is one which is generally misunderstood by those outside the Church. In particular, Fundamentalists and other “Bible Christians” often confuse the charism of papal “infallibility” with “impeccability.” They imagine Catholics believe the pope cannot sin. Others, who avoid this elementary blunder, think the pope relies on some sort of amulet or magical incantation when an infallible definition is due.

catholic.com/tracts/papal-infallibility

Some ask how popes can be infallible if some of them lived scandalously. This objection of course, illustrates the common confusion between infallibility and impeccability. There is no guarantee that popes won’t sin or give bad example. (The truly remarkable thing is the great degree of sanctity found in the papacy throughout history; the “bad popes” stand out precisely because they are so rare.)

NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004

 

[Good_Tidings]

And I pointed out, one did not point out any error in the story, so this is as said already, attacking the messenger, not the message. Take it or leave it!

Right. I’ll leave it.

 

[gracepoole]

He has misspoken many times and people just like his direct talk, this isn’t politics as usual. He may well even be helped by this.

And therein lies the problem. He spoke before really knowing what the pope said. He misspoke because he wasn’t thorough and for some voters it won’t make one whit of difference, as it never does. That probably says more about his fans than anything else.

(What businessman opens his mouth without knowing the shot? Am I the only one who’s seen Glengarry Glen Ross?)

 

[Path_Finder]

If a Christian of any denomination decides to build a wall, and yet ignores the pain on the other side, he is not acting as a Christian.

Seeing how this is the most generous nation on earth to charities, there is little danger of this.

Where would the world be without the aid, charitable and perhaps governmental too, that the US sends to the poor overseas and abroad? We don’t need to break our nation over being so Christian. I don’t think Jesus asks that of us.

 

[Theo520]

I never said the U.S. Government had to do anything. This entire thread is about what Jesus mandates of His followers. If a Christian of any denomination decides to build a wall, and yet ignores the pain on the other side, he is not acting as a Christian. For Christians, the call of Christ always comes first. That was the central message the Pope gave. We cannot hide behind a wall when it come to very real human suffering.

So then you agree the Federal Govt can build a wall to control illegal immigration and drugs, while Christian individuals focus on Christian works of charity to our southern neighbors?

To be candid, I felt the Pope was speaking to what the Federal Govt shouldn’t do, rather than to the acts of Christian individuals.

 

[Good_Tidings]

And therein lies the problem. He spoke before really knowing what the pope said. He misspoke because he wasn’t thorough and for some voters it won’t make one whit of difference, as it never does. That probably says more about his fans than anything else.

(What businessman opens his mouth without knowing the shot? Am I the only one who’s seen Glengarry Glen Ross?)

I didn’t see the movie, but speaking before you know what you are talking about is never a good idea, especially for a presidential candidate. But it doesn’t seem to have an effect,so what does that tell you?

 

[Adonia]

I never said the U.S. Government had to do anything. This entire thread is about what Jesus mandates of His followers. If a Christian of any denomination decides to build a wall, and yet ignores the pain on the other side, he is not acting as a Christian. For Christians, the call of Christ always comes first. That was the central message the Pope gave. We cannot hide behind a wall when it come to very real human suffering.

Matthew 25:40-46

*The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”*

---

IMO, the Pope has once again done us a fantastic service. For he is again reminding us about what the Lord sees as important, rather than what we see is important.

Yeah, you might not have said that the government needs to do all of this, but there are plenty of do-gooders (mostly liberals) in this nation who want to bring in more and more people and make the taxpayer pay the bill and the Holy Father seems to think that all this is the governments job. Charity comes from the individual, not the government which takes from the citizenry under the power of law.

 

[Path_Finder]

And therein lies the problem. He spoke before really knowing what the pope said. He misspoke because he wasn’t thorough and for some voters it won’t make one whit of difference, as it never does. That probably says more about his fans than anything else.

“That probably says more about his fans than anything else.” I find this a slight to earnest debate and uncharitable.

By the same token, the hundreds that have died from illegal aliens, one might as well blame that on the free open borders crowd and that is blaming murders, rape and what have you on those that don’t care to protect our nation.

(What businessman opens his mouth without knowing the shot? Am I the only one who’s seen Glengarry Glen Ross?)

Better to misspeak than support something that sees some family get in a head-on collision from someone not in this country legally

 

[Path_Finder]

And all of this needs to come from the individual Christian/citizen who gives willingly, not at the point of the government spear which makes every citizen pay for all of this.

I am sick and tired of the do-gooders in this nation who want to take in untold millions of “immigrants” and make every taxpayer responsible for them. Excuse me, but we already have enough people to take care of in this nation without bringing in more. I say enough is enough and it’s time we take care of our own!

Exactly, if there is an earthquake, the Americans go, if there is a famine in Africa, American charities are on top of it trying to help those affected.

The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French and British exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in West Germany. It has declined there by 41% since 1971 and this Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least-appreciated people in all the earth.

As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on the Yellow River and the Yangtse. Who rushed in with men and money to help? The Americans did.

They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges and the Niger. Today, the rich bottom land of the Misssissippi is under water and no foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries into help… Managua Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples. So far this spring, 59 American communities have been flattened by tornadoes. Nobody has helped.

Read more at: tysknews.com/Depts/Our_Culture/americans.htm

Look at the collection plate every Sunday; but we have people who act piously, supporting a government that Christians are becoming more wary of every day.

 

[Adonia]

So then you agree the Federal Govt can build a wall to control illegal immigration and drugs, while Christian individuals focus on Christian works of charity to our southern neighbors?

To be candid, I felt the Pope was speaking to what the Federal Govt shouldn’t do, rather than to the acts of Christian individuals.

I would say you are right. The Pope is a Jesuit from South America and lived most of his life under very controlling Socialist governments. He has no problem with this kind of system and his outspokenness against capitalism is proof. Every problem seems to be caused by us, rather than the despotic governments like those that exist in places like Mexico.

 

[Exiled_Child]

It depends on how the word “Christian” is defined. Words seem to be the source of most of our species’ problems, and this case is no exception.

In my view, a Christian is someone who follows the precepts of Christ. However, most self-identified Christians disagree with this definition.

So, according to my definition of the term, Trump would have no right to call himself a Christian, if he were to do so.

Whether he actually has referred to himself as a Christian, I’ve no idea, but I have heard him compare his humility to that of the Pope’s.

In this day and age, human’s limitless capacity for self-deception is encouraged and worshipped.

If a biological male can proclaim he is a woman, a little girl, a horse, an armchair, etc., then why can’t a racist billionaire claim he’s a Christian?

 

[Round_Hill]

It depends on how the word “Christian” is defined. Words seem to be the source of most of our species’ problems, and this case is no exception.

In my view, a Christian is someone who follows the precepts of Christ. Most self-identified Christians disagree with this definition, however.

So, according to my definition of the term, Trump would have no right to call himself a Christian, if he were to do so.

Whether he actually has referred to himself as a Christian, I’ve no idea, but I have heard him compare his humility to that of the Pope’s.

In this day and age, human’s limitless capacity for self-deception is encouraged and worshipped.

If a biological male can proclaim he is a woman, a little girl, a horse, an armchair, etc., then why can’t a racist billionaire claim he’s a Christian?

I agree. I don’t know his heart, but I suspect Trump is a cultural Christian/nominal Christian, and that religious teachings have played a small role in his adult life. I don’t think this matters though to voters, who after being ignored by career politicians for so long, care foremost about getting things done and appreciate someone who is able to call a spade a spade.

 

[Good_Tidings]

I would say you are right. The Pope is a Jesuit from South America and lived most of his life under very controlling Socialist governments. He has no problem with this kind of system and his outspokenness against capitalism is proof. Every problem seems to be caused by us, rather than the despotic governments like those that exist in places like Mexico.

It might be helpful in understanding the pope to read the spiritual exercises of Jesuits. They come from a more rigorous spiritual background than most of us mere mortals. (and it’s universal, not geographical.)

 

[Good_Tidings]

It depends on how the word “Christian” is defined. Words seem to be the source of most of our species’ problems, and this case is no exception.

In my view, a Christian is someone who follows the precepts of Christ. However, most self-identified Christians disagree with this definition.

So, according to my definition of the term, Trump would have no right to call himself a Christian, if he were to do so.

Whether he actually has referred to himself as a Christian, I’ve no idea, but I have heard him compare his humility to that of the Pope’s.

In this day and age, human’s limitless capacity for self-deception is encouraged and worshipped.

If a biological male can proclaim he is a woman, a little girl, a horse, an armchair, etc., then why can’t a racist billionaire claim he’s a Christian?

Good question.

 

[meltzerboy]

It depends on how the word “Christian” is defined. Words seem to be the source of most of our species’ problems, and this case is no exception.

In my view, a Christian is someone who follows the precepts of Christ. However, most self-identified Christians disagree with this definition.

So, according to my definition of the term, Trump would have no right to call himself a Christian, if he were to ever do so.

Whether he actually has referred to himself as a Christian, I’ve no idea, but I have heard him compare his humility to that of the Pope’s.

In this day and age, human’s limitless capacity for self-deception is encouraged and worshipped.

If a biological male can proclaim he is a woman, a little girl, a horse, an armchair, etc., then why can’t a racist billionaire claim he’s a Christian?

When Trump compared his “humility” to that of the Pope, he was joking. The Christian comment by Pope Francis was referring to Christian behavior, not being a Christian. There is an important difference in meaning here.