Pope suggests Trump: not Christian

[irishpatrick]

We have a lot more in common than we feel sometimes.

Politics does not apply to everything.

 

[queenofheartscv]

Politics does not apply to everything.

Thank God election only comes around every 4 years.

 

[irishpatrick]

Thank God election only comes around every 4 years.

Indeed

 

[DENNYINMI]

Pope Francis was right on. Anyone that sees D. Trump as a Christian that upholds the tenants of Christianity has been taken in by the siren song of historical rhetoric that we’ve seen in Germany during the reign of the furor …Didn’t he speak of making Germany great again, giving the power to the people of Germany, and blaming a group of persons who endured the Holocaust to the utter shame of a nation that fell under this “spell”…Blamed for economic woes and more, an entire country ate it up. More harm was done to Germany than one could ever imagine.
HOW does a country fall under this type of spell? The siren song is alive and well and being relived in the United States…does it make us feel more Patriotic?
Our Pope is also accused of being socialist. Huh~ Our teaching from the time of Pope Leo has endorsed private property as a right of an individual to procure a living. As Chesterton would say…“The problem is not too much capitalism, the problem is too few capitalists”…Most Catholics don’t even know what true socialism is and if they did, the would know our Pope is not one of them. He advocates for the poor, and the last time I checked, crony capitalism was not an endorsement of the right wing establishment.
Get a grip!~

 

[Path_Finder]

I see millions that are killed, the unborn.

I don’t consider America to be great in that.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

Haven’t read all the comments but I’m not sure why a Catholic would have a problem with the Pope’s remarks. The Pope has been accused of going against his ‘who am I to judge’ statement but he was talking about the heart. We certainly can judge actions and if someone who only considers building walls and not bridges in a particular issue could be called out for not having Christian principles.

The way the question was asked could apply to anyone and that was shown in the rest of the interview. The Pope then went on to talk about other teachings of Jesus that liberals have a tendency to dissent from and was pretty strong in his statements… the evil crime of abortion, reinforcing Jesus’ teaching against so called homosexual ‘marriage’ and even though their was some confusion brought to the forefront Jesus’ teaching against contraception which allowed the teaching to be explained correctly in reply to the liberal media’s wrong interpretation… Those are all walls to life and family and we can infer that the Holy Father was admonishing politicians that enable and support those walls as certainly not practicing Christian principles.

As has been repeated before, he didn’t mention Christian principles. He said “that man” isn’t a Christian, as if he had his baptism undone.

I agree building walls, physically or allegorically, without building bridges is not Christ-like behavior. Not sure anyone should strive for.

I don’t think that removes ones Baptism, however, anymore than some folks slavish support of gay marriage or abortion makes them no longer Catholic, in the baptismal sense.

 

[irishpatrick]

As has been repeated before, he didn’t mention Christian principles. He said “that man” isn’t a Christian, as if he had his baptism undone.

I agree building walls, physically or allegorically, without building bridges is not Christ-like behavior. Not sure anyone should strive for.

I don’t think that removes ones Baptism, however, anymore than some folks slavish support of gay marriage or abortion makes them no longer Catholic, in the baptismal sense.

He did not say, “that man” isn’t a Christian–not even close.

 

[pnewton]

As has been repeated before, he didn’t mention Christian principles. He said “that man” isn’t a Christian, as if he had his baptism undone.

It has** also** been mentioned that this is not what this means. It is an artifact of the translation. The proper translation to English, would have treated “Christian” as adjective by usage.

You (and many others) have made the Watchtower error. In John 1:1, they properly and literally translate, " the Word was a god." Lack of an article can imply what we call in English and indefinite noun, but it can also indicate an indefinite noun being used as an adjective, as in “the Word was divine”, or “that man isn’t Christian.” In this, the Pope spoke true. It is contrary to the teaching of Jesus to do anything that does not recognize the face of Jesus in those in need, as per Matthew 25.

I hope a familiar example clears this up.

 

[Joe_5859]

Thank God election only comes around every 4 years.

Generally, we have elections once or twice a year. Presidential elections generate more interest, though.

 

[zz912]

Pope Francis was right on. Anyone that sees D. Trump as a Christian that upholds the tenants of Christianity has been taken in by the siren song of historical rhetoric that we’ve seen in Germany during the reign of the furor …Didn’t he speak of making Germany great again, giving the power to the people of Germany, and blaming a group of persons who endured the Holocaust to the utter shame of a nation that fell under this “spell”…Blamed for economic woes and more, an entire country ate it up. More harm was done to Germany than one could ever imagine.
HOW does a country fall under this type of spell? The siren song is alive and well and being relived in the United States…does it make us feel more Patriotic?
Our Pope is also accused of being socialist. Huh~ Our teaching from the time of Pope Leo has endorsed private property as a right of an individual to procure a living. As Chesterton would say…“The problem is not too much capitalism, the problem is too few capitalists”…Most Catholics don’t even know what true socialism is and if they did, the would know our Pope is not one of them. He advocates for the poor, and the last time I checked, crony capitalism was not an endorsement of the right wing establishment.
Get a grip!~

For myself, I don’t like Trump and won’t be voting for him in the general election. But these comments smack of pure politics and hypocrisy. You are correct, Donald Trump does not now nor has ever lived an actual Christian lifestyle or abided by Christian morals. But I don’t recall the Pope saying President Obama wasn’t a Christian, or VP Biden, Hillary Clinton or Pelosi, or a host of Catholics/Christians who utterly reject Christian teaching. He only has focused such comments on someone who wishes to control the flood of illegal immigrants to this country.

He makes these comments while flying back from a country with a MUCH more stringent immigration policy than the US. Try sneaking illegally across the border to Mexico. Yet the Pope makes no comment about that. And he makes no comment about the socialism in Mexico that has turned the country into a 3rd world hellhole that millions of people are fleeing. Did he say any comments about the economic policies in Mexico that have CAUSED this many people to leave and flood our country? If he has, I sure didn’t hear about it.

And for those who are trying to parse his words, just stop. It was a political jab intended to attack Mr. Trump, while leaving just enough wiggle room so there could be deniability about his attack. But everyone knows exactly what he was saying.

Remember, I don’t like Mr. Trump and will not support him in the general election. But I’m just calling this as I see it. The Pope waded into the political arena and his comments are open to discussion.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

But I don’t recall the Pope saying President Obama wasn’t a Christian, or VP Biden, Hillary Clinton or Pelosi, or a host of Catholics/Christians who utterly reject Christian teaching.

If anyone on the plane had asked the Pope about any of these specific individuals and the specific Church teachings that they violate, I’m sure the Pope would have responded by saying that anyone who does those things is not acting like a Christian. The impetus came from the reporter, not from the Pope. So I don’t think you can blame the Pope for the choice of topics.

 

[zz912]

If anyone on the plane had asked the Pope about any of these specific individuals and the specific Church teachings that they violate, I’m sure the Pope would have responded by saying that anyone who does those things is not acting like a Christian. The impetus came from the reporter, not from the Pope. So I don’t think you can blame the Pope for the choice of topics.

In 3 years not one person has asked the Pope about any of those politicians? Not one person?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

In 3 years not one person has asked the Pope about any of those politicians? Not one person?

I don’t know what your point is. Is it that the press has not asked about those politicians because the press is all left-wing? Or is it that the press has asked about them and the Pope has said nothing bad about them because he is left-wing? Or that he did condemn those actions and it was not reported because the media is left-wing? I just don’t know which left-wing boogie man I’m supposed to be looking for right now.

 

[pnewton]

But I don’t recall the Pope saying President Obama wasn’t a Christian, or VP Biden, Hillary Clinton or Pelosi, or a host of Catholics/Christians who utterly reject Christian teaching. He only has focused such comments on someone who wishes to control the flood of illegal immigrants to this country…

He did not “focus” a comment. He was asked a question and answered it.

In 3 years not one person has asked the Pope about any of those politicians? Not one person?

Either it has not been asked, or such a specific question has not been reported. Either way, the Pope is head of the Catholic Church, not the vicar of the US media.

 

[DENNYINMI]

For myself, I don’t like Trump and won’t be voting for him in the general election. But these comments smack of pure politics and hypocrisy. You are correct, Donald Trump does not now nor has ever lived an actual Christian lifestyle or abided by Christian morals. But I don’t recall the Pope saying President Obama wasn’t a Christian, or VP Biden, Hillary Clinton or Pelosi, or a host of Catholics/Christians who utterly reject Christian teaching. He only has focused such comments on someone who wishes to control the flood of illegal immigrants to this country.

He makes these comments while flying back from a country with a MUCH more stringent immigration policy than the US. Try sneaking illegally across the border to Mexico. Yet the Pope makes no comment about that. And he makes no comment about the socialism in Mexico that has turned the country into a 3rd world hellhole that millions of people are fleeing. Did he say any comments about the economic policies in Mexico that have CAUSED this many people to leave and flood our country? If he has, I sure didn’t hear about it.

And for those who are trying to parse his words, just stop. It was a political jab intended to attack Mr. Trump, while leaving just enough wiggle room so there could be deniability about his attack. But everyone knows exactly what he was saying.

Remember, I don’t like Mr. Trump and will not support him in the general election. But I’m just calling this as I see it. The Pope waded into the political arena and his comments are open to discussion.

Save it. The ‘siren song’ is fascinating to the ears of our nation right now, and the correlation made to Hitler’s Germany insomuch as an entire nation taken in by blustering rhetoric by a man who blames the woes of our country on poor immigrants (in a similar way the Jews were blamed)…it’s all there. Were the Germans bad people intrinsically? Not all I would venture to say…but they certainly wanted to appear “patriotic” and didn’t rock the boat in the face of pure evil, and I don’t mind if I do.

 

[queenofheartscv]

Save it. The ‘siren song’ is fascinating to the ears of our nation right now, and the correlation made to Hitler’s Germany insomuch as an entire nation taken in by blustering rhetoric by a man who blames the woes of our country on poor immigrants (in a similar way the Jews were blamed)…it’s all there. Were the Germans bad people intrinsically? Not all I would venture to say…but they certainly wanted to appear “patriotic” and didn’t rock the boat in the face of pure evil, and I don’t mind if I do.

So now the mere mention of enforcing our immigration laws has become pure evil! So patriotism is always evil in your opinion? Patriotism is always tied to Nazism? You don’t find anything extreme about your rhetoric here?

 

[Peter_Plato]

Save it. The ‘siren song’ is fascinating to the ears of our nation right now, and the correlation made to Hitler’s Germany insomuch as an entire nation taken in by blustering rhetoric by a man who blames the woes of our country on poor immigrants (in a similar way the Jews were blamed)…it’s all there. Were the Germans bad people intrinsically? Not all I would venture to say…but they certainly wanted to appear “patriotic” and didn’t rock the boat in the face of pure evil, and I don’t mind if I do.

A bit of argumentum ad consequentiam mixed with an association fallacy.

It is not clear to me that Trump is so much blaming “the woes of our country on poor immigrants,” as demonstrating that those who have opened the borders wide to illegal immigrants are doing so to the detriment of the poor already in the country and for the sake of maintaining their political power illicitly.

The second aspect of the argument is that the Democrats are doing so for political gain more than out of concern for the welfare of their constituents since immigrants tend to vote Democrat by a large margin. In other words, Democrats are not fairly representing those they are supposed to represent but are reforming and reframing the very nature of representation by bringing in non-citizens to undermine the very rights of the citizens they are supposedly representing.

I suppose if Hitler threw open the borders of Germany to foreigners in order to undermine the rights of the German people themselves and to gain/maintain political power we might be talking apples to apples.

Since he didn’t, we aren’t.

Full disclosure: I am not a Trump fan. I am not an American voter. Trump is making a legitimate point.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

So now the mere mention of enforcing our immigration laws has become pure evil! So patriotism is always evil in your opinion? Patriotism is always tied to Nazism? You don’t find anything extreme about your rhetoric here?

Mere mention? We have heard more than that. And patriotism is as much about welcoming as it is about protection. For insight into the origins of Catholic patriotism I recommend “Patriotism and Fraternalism in the Knights of Columbus: A History of the Forth Degree” by Christopher J.Kauffman

As a country we have been down this essentially Nativist path before. It is not pretty. Look up The American Protective Association, for example.

 

[Good_Tidings]

Save it. The ‘siren song’ is fascinating to the ears of our nation right now, and the correlation made to Hitler’s Germany insomuch as an entire nation taken in by blustering rhetoric by a man who blames the woes of our country on poor immigrants (in a similar way the Jews were blamed)…it’s all there. Were the Germans bad people intrinsically? Not all I would venture to say…but they certainly wanted to appear “patriotic” and didn’t rock the boat in the face of pure evil, and I don’t mind if I do.

If Trump holds a rally in a beer hall I shudder to think of the consequences.

 

[Forestarius]

How often has a Pope publicly criticized a specific person?