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queenofheartscv
Guest
The real contention here is not what constitutes a christian but if a country has the right to build a wall without its morality being called into question.I have to say that Irishpatrick is so right, here.
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Path_Finder
Guest
Not sure where the conversation is in this but I see nothing wrong with thinking one should speak English in the US.
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irishpatrick
Guest
Trump lashed out at the Pope with completely inaccurate comments, and he is using the Pope to further his own cause. Not sure how any Catholic could vote for him. He blasts Cruz for being a liar, and now he intentionally perverts the Popeâs comments to make advances in a highly Evangelical state. Sorryâthis all upsets me very much.
There are various stories on walls in the past few months being of aid. Really, itâs just to dismiss at least the possibility that they are being effective to simply insist they do not work.
Trump also, pretty much has made it clear from the start, he believes in âtouch-back amnestyâ meaning if you were good here, go back to your country and you will be admitted back.
That is the sort of person he will be in the Oval Officeâthe ends justifies the means, no matter what.
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
Yup. And a country has the right to demand that.
There are various stories on walls in the past few months being of aid. Really, itâs just to dismiss at least the possibility that they are being effective to simply insist they do not work.
Trump also, pretty much has made it clear from the start, he believes in âtouch-back amnestyâ meaning if you were good here, go back to your country and you will be admitted back.
Look, one of my aunts wanted to come here. Legally. Was denied. Accepted the denial with sadness.
I am sad that she didnât make it, but I am proud that she didnât break the law. She realized that there is no ârightâ to be a US citizen.
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TheOrigen
Guest
No he didnât, he called out people that spend all their time and energy trying to keep people away from them and protecting their stuff instead of spending their time and energy trying to help people and raise them up.
Just because was using the symbolism of a wall doesnât mean he was literally saying âyo walls are bad.â If he was saying that then weâd all be condemned for having shelter.
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irishpatrick
Guest
Noâthe larger questions now is about Trump. He wrongly lashed out at the Pope by perverting the words spoken by the Pope. He does nothing that is no in an effort to advance his causeâso he did this knowing the Pope had not singled him out, and that Pope refused to tell Americans how to vote, and that the Pope even said he gave Trump the benefit of the doubt. All Trump had to do was say, âthe Popeâs words do not apply to me.â But, instead, he stokes the fires again and he only does that for his own good.
That is what this is about.
What the Pope said was in complete conformity with the faith and is quite reasonable. He said if one is ONLY thinking of building walls, and does not think of building bridges, that is not Christian. That is 100% a Gospel messageâwhat would anyone expect from the Pope.
Btw, the Pope never once said Trump is not a Christian, not once.
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mattp0625
Guest
I am Catholic and a Trump supporter.
I understand where the pope is coming from per the gospel - help the poor and create unity among Godâs people.
I understand Trump, too. The country has $19 trillion of debt and has a plethora of problems from illegal immigration such as drugs and gangs, or a potential ISIS problem.
My ancestors came to the USA legally, waited their turn, and worked multiple jobs to survive.
Itâs true that Trump may end up being the one protecting the Vatican from ISIS. The caliphate has been after the Catholic Church for 1,500 years.
Protestants, political liberals, and atheists are having a field day with this in order to attack the Church and the papacy.
The media, including Catholic media, are definitely sensationalizing this story.
I hope Trump chooses to work with, rather than against the Pope. That said, some folks (including certain denominations) seem to easily confuse politics versus doctrine, or, if you will, the flesh and the Spirit.
I understand where the pope is coming from per the gospel - help the poor and create unity among Godâs people.
I understand Trump, too. The country has $19 trillion of debt and has a plethora of problems from illegal immigration such as drugs and gangs, or a potential ISIS problem.
My ancestors came to the USA legally, waited their turn, and worked multiple jobs to survive.
Itâs true that Trump may end up being the one protecting the Vatican from ISIS. The caliphate has been after the Catholic Church for 1,500 years.
Protestants, political liberals, and atheists are having a field day with this in order to attack the Church and the papacy.
The media, including Catholic media, are definitely sensationalizing this story.
I hope Trump chooses to work with, rather than against the Pope. That said, some folks (including certain denominations) seem to easily confuse politics versus doctrine, or, if you will, the flesh and the Spirit.
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Danny33
Guest
Exactly. And terrorists sneaking in.
This is crazy talk. IMO. Folks thinking its OK to have wide open borders and the US accept everyone.
It is destroying trades in California. Good jobs, carpenters and electricians and such. Corporations love it but American workers lose and immigrant workers working for next to nothing get exploited.
The US and no other country can have free borders. That is common sense but the elites want and exploit that to their own ends.
Trump has exploited it too to his benefit. But the âfolkâ know something is off here despite what the Pope says. Its why there is a huge negative reaction to his comments.
Nothing to do with anti-Catholicism as some are trying to spin it. it has to do with common sense.
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Path_Finder
Guest
No, I heard Trumpâs statement and he was saying something like âIf the Pope said thisâ so, oneâs statement appears to be a bit derisive towards Trump.
I doubt if it is Christian to sum up his popularity etc as because he is a celebrity and so on.
And the Pope is the Vicar of Christ on Earth but I donât know if that means ever word he says means it is correct, take Cuba, what a bad deal that is and apparently, we are told the Pope was involved in it. Senator Rubio does not agree with the Cuban deal and Rubio is a Catholic.
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TheOrigen
Guest
Iâm willing to give Trump the benefit of the doubt that what happened was some campaign staffer said âHey, Donald, The Pope just called you out and said youâre not a Christianâ and then Trump assembled the cameras and let loose. Not very presidential I suppose, but, eh, itâs Trump.
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irishpatrick
Guest
Trump lashed out at the Pope, twice in a couple weeks. Does not bode well, and I cannot for the life me understand how any Catholic can vote for him. But thatâs their own choice.
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irishpatrick
Guest
âWell Putin, you are a blank blank blank, and if you donât do what I say, we will send a few bombs your wayââ
Oh, donât worry, its just Trump.
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Good_Tidings
Guest
It would be even better if Americans speaking English could actually speak it well.
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queenofheartscv
Guest
Go ahead and look at all the news websites and their headlines. What do you see?
Mr. Pope, Tear Down this Wall! (Breitbart)
POPE PICKS FIGHT WITH TRUMP
ENTERS U.S. ELECTION BATTLE(Drudge)
Pope: Supporting Border Wall âNot Christianâ (Bretibart)
Pope Francis Implies Trump is not a Christian (Fox News)
Pope on Trump: Anyone who wants border walls âis not Christianâ (washington Post)
I understand why you want to make the issue be about Trump, but this is not whatâs happening out there.
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Path_Finder
Guest
I think Trump said something about shooting someone. I donât know if he used the word âkillâ.
And at the same time, one looks at the Pope, he has indeed commented on the border. How that is interpreted is another different matter. In this, Mr. Trump is voicing his opinion as well.
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
Excellent point!
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TheOrigen
Guest
In the general? I sure can. If itâs between someone who gives lip service to pro-life causes and someone who actively advocates infanticide until the last foot has left the birth canal, iâm voting me some Trump.
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Round_Hill
Guest
Why is the Pope chiming into the American election battle anyway? I find it hard to believe that one of his advisors would not have informed/warned him how politically charged the immigration issue is in the United States, and the dangers of chiming in. Itâs no surprise this is being spun by both sides, he should have expected and known this.
I think it damaged the office of the Papacy, because the Pope is now seen (wrongly or rightly) as a partisan person.
I think it damaged the office of the Papacy, because the Pope is now seen (wrongly or rightly) as a partisan person.
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irishpatrick
Guest
"For a religious leader to question a personâs faith is disgraceful. No leader, especially a religious leader, has the right to question another manâs religion or faith,â he told a packed room at a golf course resort. Trump then accused the Mexican government of âusing the pope as a pawnâ. (note: this implies that Trump thinks the Pope is allowing himself to be used as a pawn by the Mexican government).
When the Pope speaks about faith and morals, we are to take they very seriously. Certainly, when he speaks about those at the border, that is a moral and political issue, and the faith has something to say as well.
All Catholics sin the USA hould be giving serious thought to what the Pope said.
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anthony022071
Guest
There are good reason to say that Trump is not a Christian (his pride in wealth, his divorces and remarriages and fornication, which he probably never repented for) but his intention to build a border wall to protect the nation is not one of them. There is no traditional Church teaching against border walls or strict limits on the amount of immigrants,whether legal or illegal,or discrimination against immigrants of certain nationalities or other religions.
The popes of earlier times did not oppose secular rulers keeping large groups of foreigners from entering their countries or even expelling them. There were many times throughout the centuries when Catholic rulers in Europe expelled Jews from their countries, and Muslims were expelled from Sicily and Spain,and the popes did not object. The protection and preservation of Catholic society was a higher priority than welcoming and tolerating foreigners. And the popes did not tell Catholic leaders or nations to welcome large numbers of immigrants,whether legal or illegal. They did not think that nations should allow unlimited numbers of foreigners to become citizens or that one of the purposes of a nation is to allow people from all over the world to come and be integrated and prosper. That view of nations only became common among after the United Nations was set up.
The popes of earlier times did not oppose secular rulers keeping large groups of foreigners from entering their countries or even expelling them. There were many times throughout the centuries when Catholic rulers in Europe expelled Jews from their countries, and Muslims were expelled from Sicily and Spain,and the popes did not object. The protection and preservation of Catholic society was a higher priority than welcoming and tolerating foreigners. And the popes did not tell Catholic leaders or nations to welcome large numbers of immigrants,whether legal or illegal. They did not think that nations should allow unlimited numbers of foreigners to become citizens or that one of the purposes of a nation is to allow people from all over the world to come and be integrated and prosper. That view of nations only became common among after the United Nations was set up.
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