Pope suggests Trump: not Christian

[LeafByNiggle]

I’m not saying I agree with this, but according to Laura Ingraham, a Catholic, it is a “money play” for the Church leadership, who receives “tens of millions” from the US Government to assist in resettlement of low skilled immigrants.

She argues that it is a moneymaking operation, and thus in the interest of the Church leadership to keep the flow of immigrants into the United States. She argued this in her show yesterday with Donald Trump.

It is disgusting for a Catholic to be so disrespectful of their Church to imply that this very Church would so corrupt the message of the gospel for monetary gain. That is a very serious charge. A little humility on the part of Laura might make her consider that maybe the misinterpretation of the gospel is hers and not the Church’s.

 

[Path_Finder]

I can’t agree with what Limbaugh said in that article, though I think he is often “on the money” in other contexts.

I think a lot of Catholics don’t realize the ignorance about Catholicism can lead to terrible misunderstandings. There is almost a “Catholicspeak” that others don’t quite understand.
Some, of course, don’t want to understand.

I may not agree with what Rush said, on the other hand, if Sanctuary cities have been supported by any Church, perhaps this issue should be examined as well. To do that, I may disagree with as well.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

I’m not saying I agree with this, but according to Laura Ingraham, a Catholic, it is a “money play” for the Church leadership, who receives “tens of millions” from the US Government to assist in resettlement of low skilled immigrants.

She argues that it is a moneymaking operation, and thus in the interest of the Church leadership to keep the flow of immigrants into the United States. She argued this in her show yesterday with Donald Trump.

Another reason I am glad to be rid of Fox “news”.

 

[Path_Finder]

Path_Finder, you’re better than this. I’ve read many good posts from you in the past, so I know you’re better than this. The accusations leveled at our Pope in that article are over the top. Neither Rush Limbaugh, nor anyone else, should be out there telling us, and the rest of the world, about the Pope by creating ideas out of thin air.

As Catholics we are called to trust that the Pope is guided by the Holy Spirit in word and deed. Yes, he is human, but God bestows considerable grace upon the shepherd of the world. So many of the comments on this thread have been posed through the lens of politics and this temporal world, not through the lens of faith in God and faith in His Church against which the gates of Hell shall not prevail.

All thoughts of walls aside, there is no denying this: Pope Francis gets your attention. We should be considering, in situations like this, not about what we are told the Pope said, but about what stirs in our hearts. What am I doing to help in a situation that is quite clearly growing exceedingly prominent for many reasons?

This is not a jab against you, and it comes from a stranger on the Internet. Take it with a grain of salt if you like, or don’t consider it at all if you wish. I merely wanted to put it out there that from what I know about your many past posts that have been good, it seems that posting “God bless Rush Limbaugh” for the things he said about our Pope is be beneath you.

May God bless you, and may His Holy Spirit always fill your heart.

I know, in His own words, when asked if He was a Pawn, the Pope seemed to not give a direct answer “No”. Now what are we to make of this?

Rush has been tirelessly Pro-Life and standing up for other values that Catholics would share with Rush Limbaugh, so to say “God Bless Rush Limbaugh” at any time, I find plausible. He has proven himself. I may not have said it directly in response to his words from the article so that would be my fault if that created any confusion.

On the other hand, with so much criticism of others, if any Church has supported Sanctuary Cities and we see that such a status has lent itself to criminal acts, that likewise, can be something to be critical of.

 

[Ridgerunner]

It is disgusting for a Catholic to be so disrespectful of their Church to imply that this very Church would so corrupt the message of the gospel for monetary gain. That is a very serious charge. A little humility on the part of Laura might make her consider that maybe the misinterpretation of the gospel is hers and not the Church’s.

I would say the pedophile cover ups were worse. And yet, nobody is “disgusted” by those who accused Cdl Law of being instrumental in the cover up. Nor do I recall anybody calling for “humility” on the part of those who accused him.

Recently, Bishop Finn of Kansas City, Mo, seems to have been rusticated for the same thing on a smaller scale, and there was a lot of cheering here on CAF when it happened. I don’t recall anyone calling for humility on their part at the time.

Just because people are church functionaries, it doesn’t put them beyond examination by people whose interest is the good of the Church. One has to be careful about such things, of course. But Laura Ingraham is a former trial lawyer with pretty high credentials.

 

[gracepoole]

I know, in His own words, when asked if He was a Pawn, the Pope seemed to not give a direct answer “No”. Now what are we to make of this?

Wow. You’re seriously considering trusting Rush Limbaugh over the Pontiff?

 

[JoeFreedom]

CAF readers, pay attention! This post is the most insightful of the lot. There is indeed a difference between calling someone not a Christian and saying that their behavior is not Christian. I’m now inclined to change my view about what the Pope actually meant. Thank you, Joe.

Edit: I agree with you Meltzer… My words below are making an observation about this whole firestorm…

Words matter. When someone says to me, “You’re a jerk!”, I assume they believe me to be a jerk in all matters. When someone says to me, “You just acted like a jerk!”, I know that my recent actions were wrong but I am still accepted.

There’s a big difference between saying, “You’re not a Christian.”, and “You’re not behaving like a Christian.” While it’s likely true that the Pope meant his actions were not Christ-like, words matter.

 

[Theo520]

It is disgusting for a Catholic to be so disrespectful of their Church to imply that this very Church would so corrupt the message of the gospel for monetary gain. That is a very serious charge. A little humility on the part of Laura might make her consider that maybe the misinterpretation of the gospel is hers and not the Church’s.

Do you honestly think charities don’t become corrupted by money?

 

[Joe_5859]

We already have a border which was strengthened significanlty under Bush. It’s much more difficult to sneak across than in early 2000’s.

Trump would ‘build a strong wall’ by:

• more ICE agents
• e-verify etc to enforce employment laws
• expand barrier wall in high traffic areas

When the US economy is in recession, many illegals return to their homes. Enforcing our laws would create the same net negative movement (self deportation).

I thought he meant an actual physical wall.

 

[gracepoole]

Do you honestly think charities don’t become corrupted by money?

Charities? The Church is just another charity now?

I’m still trying to wrap my head around Ingraham’s claim. She notes that the Church receives millions for finding homes for refugees, immigrants, migrants. So this is a moneymaking scheme because the Church is taking money which is then used to house the homeless?

 

[Round_Hill]

Charities? The Church is just another charity now?

I’m still trying to wrap my head around Ingraham’s claim. She notes that the Church receives millions for finding homes for refugees, immigrants, migrants. So this is a moneymaking scheme because the Church is taking money which is then used to house the homeless?

She might have been referring to Catholic Charities and other Church affiliated groups. I don’t know the exact numbers, but I am certain they receive millions from the government for immigration programs. Her statements aren’t very clear, and make it sound like the actual church is receiving money which I don’t think is the case.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I aim to entertain. I should aim to actually do something, but that would involve a great amount of effort and well work already took up most of my day!

 

[Thorolfr]

Donald Trump diffused some of the tension between him and Pope Francis I at an event in Myrtle Beach this afternoon, praising a “beautiful statement” by the Vatican saying of the pope’s comments: “in no way was this a personal attack”.

The pope had angered Trump by saying a person who “thinks only about building walls… and not of building bridges, is not Christian”. Trump said the pontiff was “disgraceful”.

But Trump struck a more conciliatory tone just now.

“The pope is great, he made a beautiful statement this morning,” Trump said. “They had him convinced that illegal immigration is a good thing.”

theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/feb/19/presidential-campaign-2016-south-carolina-republican-primary-nevada-democratic-caucus-trump-clinton-sanders

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

Trust me the wall is not help. Use that money for something better.

Like hiring more border patrol officers and getting better technology.

Saying a wall is a financial waste and boondoggle and saying it is immoral as Christians are two separate arguments.

I am not sure the wall’s effectiveness has any bearing on the Holy Father’s words. This isn’t a thread about whether or not the wall is a good idea, it is a thread about the Pope’s words yesterday, which while they touched on the spiritual dimension of walling off others without also reaching out to people, didn’t address the practicality of an idea To me, that is irrelevant to the discussion of spiritual good and bad.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

I know, in His own words, when asked if He was a Pawn, the Pope seemed to not give a direct answer “No”. Now what are we to make of this?..

Wow. You’re seriously considering trusting Rush Limbaugh over the Pontiff?

Path_Finder, this is a charge I’d like to see your response to (not saying it’s a valid charge, but one that should be addressed). The reason it’s important is that reading that link you provided of Rush Limbaugh (which you admittedly didn’t say you agreed with, but only said “God Bless Rush Limbaugh”), there was no similar questioning of Limbaugh’s ‘what are we to make of that’ type comments regarding what he said.

For example, what are we to make of these comments from Rush Limbaugh?

God Bless Rush Limbaugh!

Read his words for oneself.

newsmax.com/Newsfront/rush-limbaugh-pope-francis-donald-trump-socialism/2016/02/18/id/715058/

Rush Limbaugh: “The Pope is encouraging them to come here. He’s encouraging us to let them come here. He’s encouraging us to stop any efforts whatsoever to prevent them from coming here. Why, if capitalism’s so bad? 'Cause if he gets what he wants and everybody else along with him, we’re not gonna be capitalists very much longer.”

This is the Pope’s position? Now what are we to make of that?

Your recent posts makes it appear that you question the intent of the Pope’s words more than the intent of Rush Limbaugh. It (at least appears) you trust the words of Limbaugh and are unsure of the words of Pope Francis.

 

[pnewton]

God Bless Rush Limbaugh!

Read his words for oneself.

newsmax.com/Newsfront/rush-limbaugh-pope-francis-donald-trump-socialism/2016/02/18/id/715058/

I did. Why would a Catholic bless some anti-Catholic for slandering the Pope. What’s next here? A cause for the canonization of Jack Chick?

Anti-Catholics, like Mr. Limbaugh are always the the most opinionated about that part of the Catholic faith in which they are most ignorant.

 

[Theo520]

I thought he meant an actual physical wall.

He’s going to extend the barrier wall we have in place, but I expect he will be practical about it. He does emphasize the importance of adding surveillance, more ICE agents and enforcing our existing employment laws. If all the levers are pulled it will reverse the flow of illegal migrants.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

Maybe they will just call the teaching “prudential opinion” like the conservatives are doing whenever they want to dissent. Again, Jesus. Pope Francis is just paraphrasing Jesus. And again, and again, and again, if the actual principle is such a prudential opinion, where are the US bishops that supports our Machiavellian immigration policy?

As had repeated ad nauseum, this is not a binary issues like cloning, fetal-stem cell research, or abortion.

I don’t any “conservative” disagreeing with the message. We cannot live insular lives and not reach out to help our fellow man. Likewise, we have the right and duty to protect our familial, local, and national sovereignty. Whether or not conservatives or liberals our following Jesus’s approach to the poor is up for debate and ponderance. The Church will not say “Rubio’s plan on immigration violates Church teachings on the issue” because care for the poor is a nebulous, introspective attitude. It can never be defined by a policy or law.

Of course, as we all know, others concepts can be defined as absolutely morally correct or not. They are 0’s and 1’s; binary issues. Abortion is an either or, and there is nor room for one’s own judgment. Gay marriage is either or, and there is no room for one’s judgment. Cloning is either or, and there is no room for one’s judgment.

Outside of moral absolutes the Church addresses, let’s avoid talking about one party’s plan or the other as though it has the moral high ground with Christ.

 

[Round_Hill]

I did. Why would a Catholic bless some anti-Catholic for slandering the Pope. What’s next here? A cause for the canonization of Jack Chick?

Anti-Catholics, like Mr. Limbaugh are always the the most opinionated about that part of the Catholic faith in which they are most ignorant.

Anti-Catholic? That’s a pretty strong statement. He has many Catholic listeners in his fanbase. You make it sound like Rush Limbaugh has some personal malice toward Catholicism, which judging from his comments in that article I don’t think is the case. He was critiquing his some of Francis’ statements on economics, which as Pat Buchanan notes has been influenced by his Latin American roots.

If anything, I think Laura Ingraham’s comments about the American Catholic Bishop’s immigration stance being some kind of “money play” conspiracy more questionable.

 

[Good_Tidings]

I feel more than a little sick for having listened to a portion of that.

Who wouldn’t?There is some serious disrespect for the pope going on here.