Pope suggests Trump: not Christian

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gracepoole said:
We’re nearing 900 posts now and to my knowledge, no one here has claimed that the Pope’s comments were made ex cathedra. They have, however, noted that the Pope’s authority and instruction shouldn’t be easily ignored.
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It is not surprising. As in most things, the Holy Father’s critics must base criticism on straw and ignorance. God forbid that the protestant mentality permit Catholics to listen and learn when the hear something they do not agree with. Too many Catholics today want to be their own shepherd.

I do not know if he coined the phrase of just used it, but Scott Hahn called this mentality Cafeteria Catholicism by coincident. One fully embraced all that the Church taught, but only because it passed the test of their own opinion. The first time hard preaching comes that actual hits home, as we used to say, then it is the Pope, the Church, the bishop or priest who is in error. They could not be in error.

I am reminded of how many times, like Martin Luther, I have heard Baptists explain away the clear teaching of Matthew 25, preferring an easy salvation to one that challenges us. Here we have a large segment of Republican conservatives that would be 100% Catholic, if only one phrase could be stricken from that verse, and as a result stricken from Catholic social teaching.

May this Lent find those who have never listened open to what is being said and willing to dare try a conversion of heart.
 
Maximilan_Kolbe said:
The Church will not say “Rubio’s plan on immigration violates Church teachings on the issue” because care for the poor is a nebulous, introspective attitude. It can never be defined by a policy or law.
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:tsktsk:
2443 God blesses those who come to the aid of the poor and rebukes those who turn away from them: “Give to him who begs from you, do not refuse him who would borrow from you”; "you received without pay, give without pay."231 It is by what they have done for the poor that Jesus Christ will recognize his chosen ones.232 When “the poor have the good news preached to them,” it is the sign of Christ’s presence.233
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2444 “The Church’s love for the poor . . . is a part of her constant tradition.” This love is inspired by the Gospel of the Beatitudes, of the poverty of Jesus, and of his concern for the poor.234 Love for the poor is even one of the motives for the duty of working so as to "be able to give to those in need."235 It extends not only to material poverty but also to the many forms of cultural and religious poverty.236
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vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P8F.HTM

👍
 
Round_Hill said:
Anti-Catholic? He has many Catholic listeners in his fanbase. You make it sound like Rush Limbaugh has some personal malice toward Catholicism, which judging from his comments in that article I don’t think is the case. If anything, I think Laura Ingraham’s comments about the American Catholic leadership immigration stance being a “money play” conspiracy more questionable.
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He called the Holy Father a Marxist. He accused him of having the political motive of converting the United States to socialism. Of course he can’t back this up, as the comments are ignorant. He said:

“If socialism is so damn hot, why doesn’t the Pope ask all Mexicans to return home?” Limbaugh said. “If capitalism is such a bad thing, why doesn’t the Pope say to every Cuban living in America, ‘Get the hell back to Cuba?’”

He may find out just what “hot” and “Hell” really mean some day.
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
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GaryTaylor said:
So how come the left and right are not catering to ALL these “Catholics” coming into the country? Well the left doesn’t cater to Christianity and the right has what excuse? 🙂
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Interesting. It’s not very Christ-like to break the laws of a sovereign nation by entering illegally, now is it? Why aren’t we talking about that?
 
Maximilan_Kolbe said:
As had repeated ad nauseum, this is not a binary issues like cloning, fetal-stem cell research, or abortion.
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I know what **you **have said. That is exactly the point. Papal authority matters. One person has it. We do not. Jesus never taught just the five non-negotiables. He never said sin had to be “binary”. I would say the seven deadly sins deserve serious consideration. I would say the five sins that cry to Heaven deserve serious consideration. I darn sure think those sins that define us in the eyes of Jesus as a sheep and a goat should matter a great deal, “binary” of not.
 
pnewton said:
He called the Holy Father a Marxist. He accused him of having the political motive of converting the United States to socialism. Of course he can’t back this up, as the comments are ignorant. He said:

“If socialism is so damn hot, why doesn’t the Pope ask all Mexicans to return home?” Limbaugh said. “If capitalism is such a bad thing, why doesn’t the Pope say to every Cuban living in America, ‘Get the hell back to Cuba?’”

He may find out just what “hot” and “Hell” really mean some day.
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I read the NewsMax article again. I think there is a difference between pointing someone’s personal economic IDEAS as Socialist, Marxist, etc and straight up calling someone a derogatory term. Pat Buchanan, who I don’t think you would call an anti-Catholic, has also criticized some of Francis’ views on certain political issues as more in line with socialism.

Also, can we not call people who disagree with you on political issues “anti-[insert group]/bigot/etc”
 
dixieagle said:
Indeed! I don’t think there’s much comparison between Mexicans seeking to better themselves and marauding Saracen pirates (the reason the Vatican walls were erected in the 9th century.)

We can argue all we want about particulars; our immigration system is, indeed, broken, aided in no small part by self-serving politicians who turned their heads when local farms and factories needed workers. (My daughter has worked with numerous immigrants and could tell you things that would make you look at this issue in a whole new light.)

However, I’m with the Pope on this and have a very hard time seeing how anyone who is truly following Christ could think that erecting a wall is anything but nuts. What a ridiculous waste of billions of dollars.
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Yup, just peaceful Mexicans coming across the border. No one else. Not a peep about terrorists, drug lords or criminals. Nope, they know better and stay home in their own countries.
 
pnewton said:
He called the Holy Father a Marxist. He accused him of having the political motive of converting the United States to socialism. Of course he can’t back this up, as the comments are ignorant. He said:

“If socialism is so damn hot, why doesn’t the Pope ask all Mexicans to return home?” Limbaugh said. “If capitalism is such a bad thing, why doesn’t the Pope say to every Cuban living in America, ‘Get the hell back to Cuba?’”

He may find out just what “hot” and “Hell” really mean some day.
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I can easily find the Pope with statements some would say are Marxist, I can find pictures of the Pope with a hammer and sickle crucifix and I can find pictures of Him with Raoul Castro. Raoul Castro is purported to have done some bad, bad things and this deal between the USA and Cuba is supposed to be very bad for the poor of Cuba.

So, this is not proof of anyone being Marxist but to someone outside of Catholicism and even some within Catholicism, it might cause some wonderment.

I don’t know if Limbaugh personally called Him a Marxist, I know such things have been said per others. I know Limbaugh took a statement of the Holy Father and called it Marxism.
 
pnewton said:
I know what **you **have said. That is exactly the point. Papal authority matters. One person has it. We do not. Jesus never taught just the five non-negotiables. He never said sin had to be “binary”. I would say the seven deadly sins deserve serious consideration. I would say the five sins that cry to Heaven deserve serious consideration. I darn sure think those sins that define us in the eyes of Jesus as a sheep and a goat should matter a great deal, “binary” of not.
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Hm, wasn’t it four? :hmmm:
 
Path_Finder said:
I can easily find the Pope with statements some would say are Marxist, I can find pictures of the Pope with a hammer and sickle crucifix and I can find pictures of Him with Raoul Castro. Raoul Castro is purported to have done some bad, bad things and this deal between the USA and Cuba is supposed to be very bad for the poor of Cuba.

So, this is not proof of anyone being Marxist but to someone outside of Catholicism and even some within Catholicism, it might cause some wonderment.
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Uhm. You did notice that when he was presented the hammer and sickle crucifix, the Holy Father’s face was priceless, right? He was not amused at all when that happened.
 
JoeFreedom said:
Interesting. It’s not very Christ-like to break the laws of a sovereign nation by entering illegally, now is it? Why aren’t we talking about that?
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This is actual a great question, though do not forget that Joseph and Mary fled to Egypt without a Visa. Still, there are multiple sides to this. The Holy Father had his harshest criticism for the politicians and bishops of Mexico. Yet we do not focus on this. Are are political allegiances so important that we abandon reason if the Pope dare even utter one word we do not like? We rush to the defense of those that will castigate the Holy Father over this one point, while the ignore the rest of what he said.

Why? Is our faith so thin?
 
pnewton said:
.May this Lent find those who have never listened open to what is being said and willing to dare try a conversion of heart.
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Yes also included in that prayer are liberals who place more importance on their political ideology than on the teachings of Jesus. Hopefully they see that the Holy Father was also admonishing liberals in that he talked about someone who wants walls is not a Christian attitude. He then he goes on to talk about the evil of abortion and reinforce the teaching of Jesus against so called homosexual ‘marriage’. Those are walls against life and family. So we can infer from that statement that those who go against those teachings of Jesus as not being Christian also.

The Holy father upheld the teaching of Jesus that abortion is an evil crime and obviously he is warning against voting for politicians that support evil. The Holy Father is telling liberals that it is not Christian to place more importance on their political ideology than on the teachings of Jesus.
 
Ridgerunner said:
I would say the pedophile cover ups were worse. And yet, nobody is “disgusted” by those who accused Cdl Law of being instrumental in the cover up. Nor do I recall anybody calling for “humility” on the part of those who accused him.
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That was different. The failings were not of a nature so as to mislead the faithful. (“It were better that a milestone be hung around their neck and they be cast into the sea if they mislead these little ones”) Cdl Law was not trying to convince the faithful that pedophilia is acceptable. I think it is much more serious to accuse the Church in general of corrupting the gospel message itself.
 
Micosil said:
Hm, wasn’t it four? :hmmm:
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Yes. I was twisted with the things the Lord hates, which is six, yea, seven; and in my mind I though four, yea, five.

So, yes, my count was off, but the wisest man ever had issues with counting. 😃
 
pnewton said:
This is actual a great question, though do not forget that Joseph and Mary fled to Egypt without a Visa. Still, there are multiple sides to this. The Holy Father had his harshest criticism for the politicians and bishops of Mexico. Yet we do not focus on this. Are are political allegiances so important that we abandon reason if the Pope dare even utter one word we do not like? We rush to the defense of those that will castigate the Holy Father over this one point, while the ignore the rest of what he said.

Why? Is our faith so thin?
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**Be unified, speak out on drug violence, Pope Francis tells Mexico’s bishops **
catholicherald.com/stories/Be-unified-speak-out-on-drug-violence-Pope-Francis-tells-Mexicos-bishops,30967
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MEXICO CITY (AP) — Pope Francis’ top adviser on clerical sex abuse says bishops have a “moral and ethical responsibility” to report all cases of suspected rape,
molestation and other abuse to police — even where local laws don’t require it.
newsmax.com/World/TheAmericas/LT-Mexico-Pope-Abuse/2016/02/16/id/714481/
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Are these the heavy criticisms of the Bishops?

And per politicians of Mexico, just saying there is corruption there I’m not sure is that ground breaking.
 
pnewton said:
This is actual a great question, though do not forget that Joseph and Mary fled to Egypt without a Visa. Still, there are multiple sides to this. The Holy Father had his harshest criticism for the politicians and bishops of Mexico. Yet we do not focus on this. Are are political allegiances so important that we abandon reason if the Pope dare even utter one word we do not like? We rush to the defense of those that will castigate the Holy Father over this one point, while the ignore the rest of what he said.

Why? Is our faith so thin?
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Listen, I think with all 60+ pages in this thread, it’s been cleared up that what the Pope really said (and meant) is different than what is being spread all over the Internet. He meant that we must follow the Gospel by being compassionate to each other by building bridges. We can still build walls, but we have to consider helping each other first. As a Catholic and a conservative, building walls not only protects the innocent by protecting us from drug lords, criminals, sex trafficers, and the like, but if done properly in conjunction with just immigration laws, is not wrong. We should be compassionate towards the poorest, the weakest and the down-trodded and persecuted.

But we have a HUGE problem on our hands now and it is only going to get worse. We have to stop the bleeding, but letting every Tom Dick and Harry into our country, some of them intent on doing the most evil possible, is not the way to care for our citizens, the innocent, and is not the way to deal with the evil.
 
Micosil said:
I can’t say whether he was “offended” or not, but seriously, look at his face there. And notice how he’s otherwise very jovial and has kind eyes. 🤷 Maybe it was said as some sort of PR move; I really don’t know what to tell you. Look at his face. Pictures speak a thousand words.

I’ve glanced at that article and it’s very fishy in places. :eek:
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Well, there is more than one picture and I don’t know if He is displaying great discontent in one picture. I don’t want to link because I’m not sure of all websites out there.
 
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