Pope to drop idea of limbo

[Sixtus]

The fact of the matter is, Limbo was never part of Catholic Doctrine. It was an idea to express and explain. It was not an officially recognised place existance. So the Pope has not dropped it, he has merely clarified it.

It would be naive to believe that unbaptised do not go to Heaven. Are we really trying to say that the infinite omnipotent all powerful God does not have a contingency plan!

I am sure every aborted baby though not baptised can be numbered among the Saints. They have never sinned. They died as they had lived during their very short existence, in a state of perfection.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

The fact of the matter is, Limbo was never part of Catholic Doctrine. It was an idea to express and explain. It was not an officially recognized place existence. So the Pope has not dropped it, he has merely clarified it.

It would be naive to believe that unbaptized do not go to Heaven. Are we really trying to say that the infinite omnipotent all powerful God does not have a contingency plan!

I am sure every aborted baby though not baptized can be numbered among the Saints. They have never sinned. They died as they had lived during their very short existence, in a state of perfection.

**Sixtus, if you’re correct in contending that all unbaptized infants go to heaven, then it’s better to be aborted than to be born. **

In your private interpretation, abortion means automatic heaven for its victims, while those who are born run the risk of sinning mortally, dying unrepentant, and going to hell forever.

The only two ways to escape the logic of the above argument are (1) to deny that anyone goes to hell, or (2) to reject the Catholic Faith entirely.

Which of these two escape hatches do you choose?

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[Sixtus]

What you are saying S B is an extremist right wing view, that God is infinite only upto a point, that point being the depth of human logic. That is really bizarre. Is that really what the Church is saying?

I will go away and check with a theologian friend, to see if that is the case.

To suggest that an aborted baby is at an advantage over a ‘born one’ is silly and not worth replying to.

Jesus said 'nothing defiled [by sin] can enter heaven. Now before you say ‘ah, but an unbaptised baby is guilty of original sin’, the baby has not consented to sin. In that sense, the baby is in a state of purity. Jesus said ‘blessed are the pure for they shall see God’. Jesus also said He came ‘that they should have life and have it to the full’. What you are saying is ‘ah yes, life to the full but, even Jesus’ sacrifice was incomplete in that He cancelled the debt of most sin but not all. He did not die for those who are guilty of sin through no fault of their own, He only died for those who consented to sin. That is preposterous. But like I said, I will go away and check mine [and your] arguement with a theologian.

Pax Christi

 

[Sixtus]

Apparantly ‘limbo of children’ has never been part of Catholic doctrine, nor has never had official recognition by the Church.

Limbo reflects a state of theological uncertainty. Until Theology can come up with a definitive statement or until the Pope pronounces ‘ex-cathedra’, the concept remains. But it is * an uneasy one among theologians.

Limbo at most, is only a temporary state until the mercy of God is determined.

This supports my arguement that their ultimate fate and the power of God is not dependent on the logic of man. God is infinite in all respects including mercy*

 

[Sixtus]

Steve, I was also told that your belief that ‘souls who through no fault of their own, are separated from God for all eternity’ [hell] , is not in accord with Catholic teaching. Hell is the domain of those who by an act of free-will ‘chose’ to be separated.

Those whose fate is determined by circumstances beyond their control and who cannot exercise freewill are not culapable in sin. If they die without baptism, are not automatically condemned or banished from Heaven for all eternity.

Thank God for commonsense, the Church and theologians.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

What you are saying S B is an extremist right wing view, that God is infinite only up to a point, that point being the depth of human logic. That is really bizarre. Is that really what the Church is saying?

I will go away and check with a theologian friend, to see if that is the case.

To suggest that an aborted baby is at an advantage over a ‘born one’ is silly and not worth replying to.

Jesus said 'nothing defiled [by sin] can enter heaven. Now before you say ‘ah, but an unbaptized baby is guilty of original sin’, the baby has not consented to sin. In that sense, the baby is in a state of purity. Jesus said ‘blessed are the pure for they shall see God’. Jesus also said He came ‘that they should have life and have it to the full’. What you are saying is ‘ah yes, life to the full but, even Jesus’ sacrifice was incomplete in that He cancelled the debt of most sin but not all. He did not die for those who are guilty of sin through no fault of their own, He only died for those who consented to sin. That is preposterous. But like I said, I will go away and check mine [and your] argument with a theologian.

Pax Christi

Sixtus, not even a theologian as great as St. Thomas Aquinas can help you escape this logical argument: if heaven is better than hell, and if being aborted infallibly puts an infant into heaven, while being born involves the risk of eventually going to hell, then those who say that all aborted babies go to heaven are forced to agree that it’s better to be aborted than to be born.

Brother, what is silly is to attempt to escape the logic of the above argument. There is no escape from it, apart from denying the existence of hell, or abandoning the Faith altogether. Please don’t deny a Catholic dogma, or abandon the Faith altogether!

Pope Pius XII would be amused to be called an extremist, right-wing Catholic. So would St. Thomas Aquinas. They both would disagree with you for saying that all unbaptized infants go to heaven, and St. Thomas explicitly supported the Catholic theological deduction known as limbo, which means the wonderful gift of unmerited, everlasting natural happiness for those who die with original sin only.

Please don’t listen to me. Listen to Pope Pius XII and St. Thomas Aquinas:

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P511029.HTM
newadvent.org/summa/600101.htm
newadvent.org/summa/600102.htm

It’s perfectly correct to say that there’s no human being for whom Christ did not die. The Church says this in the new catechism (CCC 605). Even though unbaptized children, like all other human persons except the Blessed Mother, are conceived in original sin (CCC 403-404, 491, and 1250), Christ’s redemptive death benefits them, too, for these children are truly saved from the pains of hell–from God’s wrath, to use St. Paul’s expression (Rom 5:9). To describe their destiny in a positive manner, their souls will eventually be joined again to their bodies in the resurrection, after which both their bodies and souls will be forever happy in a state of natural bliss called limbo. This rescue from hell, and this eternal happiness, both result from the Redemption.

Keep and spread the Faith.